Episode 113: winterising your plants with the Plant Daddy Podcast

Matthew and Stephen of the Plant Daddy podcast.

Transcript

Episode 113

[music]

Jane: Hello and welcome to On the Ledge Podcast episode 113, I am your host Jane Perrone. This is the podcast for VIPs, that's very important plants of course. In this episode I chat to fellow plant podcasters Stephen and Matthew of the Plant Daddy Podcast about the game of Tetris that is getting your houseplants ready for winter. What to look out for when you're checking your plants over and bringing them inside, and how to make sure they stay in tip-top condition over the colder months. And I'm answering a listener question about ferns and ivies.

[music]

Jane: Thanks to Susanne for joining our merry band of Patreon subscribers. Susanne's become a legend, unlocking extra-exclusive content and making sure that On the Ledge continues to go from strength to strength. And if you're on Twitter don't forget that the next Houseplant Hour is happening at 9pm BST, this coming Tuesday the 22^nd^ of October. Join me @janeperrone on Twitter and @houseplanthour on Twitter, for a friendly, funny and generally informative hour talking about our plants. Right, that's the housekeeping out of the way, so on with the main topic of conversation today.

Gay, millennial plant daddies Stephen and Matthew started their own podcast, the Plant Daddy Podcast, earlier this year, as a way of bringing intersectional horticulture right into your earbuds. And I'm delighted to welcome this new podcast to the podcast landscape because it's great fun and it's a podcast about plants that I don't have to make myself, which is a big bonus. And when they invited me to collaborate, I just couldn't wait to have a chat to them. So, we decided to talk about winterizing your houseplants and in this chat, we get into all kinds of things, from my irrational hatred for orange heuchera's to vine weevils, and some of our favourite sources of houseplant information on the net. It's a great chat so I'm just going to let Stephen and Matthew introduce themselves.

Matthew: So, this is Matthew and Stephen from Plant Daddy Podcast, I'm Matthew.

Stephen: I'm Stephen.

Matthew: And we basically are old friends who have really been interested in plants for a number of years and our interests developed independently, but we've kind of discovered that there's a huge community of, well, basically, like, gay guys in our area who love houseplants and we wanted to kind of help to support and nourish that community.

Stephen: Yeah, so we were having a lot of conversations with our friends and we thought, 'Why not start recording some of these? Maybe there are other people to reach out to.' And really, you know, we give plant advice, plant experiences for everybody but I guess with a particular eye toward that community and others, you know, enjoying plants too.

Matthew: But our ultimate goal is to make this a very accessible hobby because I feel like the entry point to being interested in houseplants is incredibly easy to meet. They're so beautiful, they're so interesting, there's so many benefits that one can have by bringing houseplants into their life, or just plants in general, whether you garden outdoors or in, and we have each, kind of, converted people to being houseplant enthusiasts simply by being open to those conversations and sharing knowledge, experience, and interests. So, we're really excited to now, kind of, have a spotlight we can shine on some of those interesting plants that help new people to get involved.

Jane: Well you know what guys, it's really, really nice to be able to listen to somebody else's podcast about plants that I don't have to sweat over. That's the nice thing as a listener to other plant podcasts, is you can just enjoy it and you don't have to be worrying about 'How is the sound?' or 'How did you book this guest?'. It's very, very nice to have that. So, thank you for starting your podcast. I don't know if you mentioned, I don't think you did, where exactly you're located. I'm sure this happens to you as it does to me, where people go, "I love your voice, the sonorous voice. I don't know what part of the US that is from" but where are you? Or is it Canada? I insulted somebody terribly by saying that, thinking that they were from the US when there were actually from Canada, so I shouldn't make assumptions.

Stephen: Yeah, we're close. We're in Seattle, so right near Canada.

Matthew: It's like a three hour drive north to get there.

Stephen: Yeah, the west coast of North America.

Matthew: Yeah, we're in the pacific Northwest which offers a really fantastic climate. The way that the Pacific Ocean shelters us from some of the extreme northern weather.

Jane: Well, I haven't been to Seattle, but I do have family in Vancouver and Victoria, and I'll tell you what, the next time I'm over there -- which I don't know when that'll be -- I'm going to come down and see you guys because it's not that far. And I know what you mean about the climate there. When I say to people I've got family in Canada they always say "Oh, what's it like being in the snow?" and you're like, well, they don't really get a lot of snow actually, you know that side of things, it's a different climate, but yeah quite similar to ours actually, so yeah that's interesting. Are you doing the houseplant shuffle right now like I am, where you're looking at things and going "Ah, I've got to get that inside, this needs moving that needs moving"?

Matthew: Yeah, we are right on the cusp on when our night-time temperatures begin to fall and so I haven't brought anything in quite yet but I'm starting to make those calculated assessments.

Stephen: Yeah, so I actually have started this process. I'm bringing in my more delicate succulents that can't get too cold at night, and I'm starting this process of bringing in these plants kind of one by one, making sure that there are no bugs, spraying down with neem oil, and then trying to you know fit these in with this complicated jigsaw puzzle indoors, right, where you used to have room but then you bought a new plant in the summer and now there's no longer that space, so what do you do?

Jane: That is the thing. And then you also realize that things, like I've just moved my two Thai Constellation Monsteras into my front room, forgetting that the floor in there is an oak floor which is not varnished, it's kind of like oiled or something, so guttation, the delights of guttation, are occurring overnight and then I've got all these drips on my floor and I'm thinking, 'It's good that I'm not too precious about these things' because yes it's already marking the floor. So yes they may have to be moved again. My husband keeps coming into rooms and sort of double-taking because suddenly there's a whole load of plants where there weren't plants before and things have moved or disappeared and it might take him going into a room about three times before he finally realizes it, but eventually he goes "Huh?! What's happened!?"

Matthew: That's exactly how my fiancée is where it's like I can add a few more, but then suddenly there's a tipping point and he's like, "Matthew why are there more plants on the dining room table?"

Jane: Yes, this is an issue. Although I want you to go into more detail, you talked a little bit there about checking for pests. Break that down for me, what does that involve in detail.

Stephen: So for me, I guess I have a particular case this summer, I had an aphid outbreak at one point, so I was looking in particular for aphids anywhere on these plants that I'm bringing in. And you know you look under the leaves, I look at new, new growth on the plant, it seems to be where aphids like to eat and breed the most, so I'll do those checks. What I'll do usually is move them indoors and move them to a place that's away from some of my other houseplants that were established and not put out for the summer so I'm not putting them right in the thick of those things, maybe spreading the aphids before I check them. I would say just there it's really a process of spraying it down with neem oil, then making sure you don't see any. I really spray down almost every plant unless it's a type that's sensitive to that. And then I would say maybe over the course of a week or two I then feel confident that nothing is there and then I move them in with the rest.

Matthew: Now for me it's a little bit different because Stephen grows a lot of particularly sensitive carnivorous plants that don't like to have a lot of chemicals and you have to be very thoughtful about how you treat them, but most of what I grow are either flowering or fruiting or foliage tropicals, so my main process is as the temperatures get colder I start to bring the plants in based on the order of their tenderness. So those first, most sensitive plants I'll bring, and I actually bought a special showerhead that has a wand attached that you can use to spray. So, I will take each individual plant regardless of whether or not I think it has pests, and I just give it a really good hose down. I have kind of a standing hose that I can screw into my sink faucet in my bathroom and lead it out onto my balcony, where I'll water things thoroughly throughout the summer.

But something that I have found, is my plants that are outside tend to have fewer pests than ones that I grow inside, and problems I'm always encountering are mealybugs and scales, like, those are the bane of my existence in my houseplants, and especially with my Hoya collection, they're always somewhat infested with various, like, sucking insects. So, I've kind of settled into this routine of just managing their populations to a level that it's not either getting sticky stuff on other adjacent plants to increase the risk of mildew, or damaging surfaces that stickiness might be getting onto. But I just keep the plants at a level where I know that they're healthy and I know that they're fine and every few months I'll spray them all down. But the plants that come in from outside tend to have few of these because I have a lot of beneficial insects that are able to come by and whether that's yellow jackets and wasps, or aphids and ladybug relationships, a lot of those insects out there that would be feeding on my plants tends to get cleared up just by natural insect activity. So when I bring them inside, I'm mostly looking to see if I have missed any, or if anything has kind of popped up since we had a lot of yellowjacket activity picking off insects, and I'll just give them all a really solid spray down in the shower, and if I notice that there's anything particular that I'm worried about I'll get them treatments. Either like an insecticidal soap spray if I want to go a little more organic on it, or I'll use neem oil, but I have to say honestly neem oil is not a silver bullet for me. You have to apply it frequently over periods of time in order, yeah.

Stephen: Yeah, you have to be really religious about that, I think.

Matthew: What I think, one of the misconceptions about neem oil, is that it's like a great organic solution to your pests, but it's not like an insecticide that you can spray on anything and it'll kill everything immediately. It's a chemical that inhibits their reproductive fitness, so if you're not using it often, you'll damage some of the insects, but then the eggs and larva continue to develop so if I'm using neem it has to be on a plant that I'm going to be dedicated with using it regularly.

Stephen: So, you also use peroxide, right? For this, or not for this?

Matthew: I have only used peroxide a little bit and I've never really found it to be that useful so I kind of skipped out on that, but I will just alcohol, just like a 70% ethanol solution. I'll spray plants down or I'll use a Q-tip and kind of go through, especially around like leaf nodes and areas that there's a lot of new tender growth that might have insects. But, kind of my own silver bullet is a toxic systemic chemical spray. I have a bunch of animals in my apartment so I really want to be careful to not accidentally poison a pet, so I'm very thoughtful when I use this, but I found that using either granules to apply on the soil or a liquid spray that you can saturate the foliage and allow it to dry while it's still in the shower, that's usually the thing that I'll use in cases where I feel like I really have to be, like, knock something out hard.

Jane: Two pests that I'm thinking of when I'm bringing my plants in that you didn't mention and perhaps these aren't problems for you, but number one for me is I'll be checking underneath the base of pots for slugs, which like to hang out. And then the worst moment is when you've brought a plant inside without doing that, and then you're just you know sitting, chilling out, and then suddenly you see this slug kind of making its way across the floor... that's not a good moment. So that's one I always check. And the other one is vine weevils, which I don't know if you have there, but they're little larvae, c-shaped cream larvae, that eat the roots of plants outside and I know that I've had infestations in my various pots over the years and they turn into little brown beetly things with long kind of noses.

Stephen: We may call those fungus gnats, is that different?

Matthew: No this is something different.

Jane: This is different.

Matthew: Yeah, we do definitely get fungus gnats, that just a problem that I'm sure the whole world faces. We have some types of weevils here, but I don't think that we have that particular one. It's not a pest that we encounter.

Jane: With the vine weevils I've just applied a nematode biological control treatment. So, you can get nematode biological treatment controls for various different pests in the UK here, including vine weevil and slugs, but the ones I got were specifically for vine weevils. It's like a powder stuff, it looks sort of like a spongey stuff. You keep it in the fridge and then you mix it into water, and then you water it on into the pots and it's kind of gross but the nematode worms which are kind of microscopic -- there's millions of them in the water -- they go into the larvae and just destroy them from within. Hopefully that's happening right now so that I won't be bringing any vine weevils in, but they are quite easy to see and quite distinctive because they really are c-shaped. So, I will probably, most of the things that I'll be bringing in have been combined with others. They've been put into bigger pots, so most things will be separated out and I'll be checking the roots for those. So yeah, that's not a fun one when you discover those. I mean it depends on the plant. You do get them sometimes where you're literally, particularly when your garden plant, the weed that's popular here called heuchera, you'll lift up a heuchera and there'll be no roots on it because they've been completely destroyed by the vine weevils, so yeah, it can be serious.

Matthew: The heuchera is actually north American native, and my mom has a beautiful garden outside, so I have helped her landscape a lot of it and we have a large collection of variously coloured heuchera I've been calling huchera.

Jane: How long is a piece of string, it doesn't really matter. I mean I'm a total snob, a total heuchera snob, I'm going to reveal my snobbery now: I really love the dark purple ones and the lime green ones, but I cannot stand the ones that're like orange. That's my own prejudice.

Matthew: All of those growing in my mom's garden. I'm not snobbish about them but I totally respect your opinion.

Stephen: This interview is over.

Jane: Exactly! It's silly because you know I love orange, sort of pumpkin orange, peperomia or something, I'm all over. It's just totally unfounded prejudice, that's all it is.

[music]

Jane: We'll be hearing more from the Plant Daddy shortly, but now let's hear from this week's sponsor.

On the Ledge Podcast is sponsored this week by the Joy of Plants. If you like to put foliage centre-stage in your life, then check out the Joy of Plants hotel suites at the Leman Locke Hotel in London, which provide a wonderful, immersive, forest bathing experience in the centre of the city. I was lucky enough to stay in the Productivity Suite designed by biophilic designer architect Oliver Heath, and I can confirm that being surrounded by houseplants all night long left me feeling wonderful in the morning. The Joy of Plants indoor plant jungle hotel suites are open for bookings until November the 10^th^ 2019. Book your stay by emailing , that's the . And check out TheJoyofPlants.co.uk to see images and more information all about the three rooms.

[music]

Jane: I'm just panicking now about my caladiums. I don't know if you've ever grown caladiums outside or inside; I'm trying to decide whether to pot them up and try to keep them growing or whether to let them dry out and keep them as tubers.

Matthew: The thing that's intimidated me about getting into the caladium is that winter dormancy. Like I would love to have some of the really beautiful variegated varieties, but I've heard that they're not amazing indoors plants, and because I don't have a space where I could use, you know, bedding for them, they've just not really become a plant that I've put my attention to yet.

Jane: Well, I'll let you know how I go. I've been reading up on lots of different advice on storing the tuber, so we'll see. I've got plenty of room to store them so yeah, I would like to think that it'll be successful, but we'll see. They haven't been a tremendous success outside because I've put them in mixed containers with mainly, well, other things like Begonia luxurians and Coleus, which have all gone crazy and have shaded them out too much, so they haven't been a massive success but that's a lesson for next year. I just love the coleus and I just, like, let them go rampant, so that is the issue.

Matthew: And that's kind of another topic in kind of getting ready for winter and fall, is figuring out which of your plants need to enter dormant season and kind of managing that because if you've been growing something on a balcony and it's been getting kind of bad fall transition weather and it's getting lower light for the day and it's starting to get colder nights, a lot of things begin to kind of shut down, and I really try to be careful to not shock them by bringing them suddenly into like a 60% humidity, 75 Fahrenheit apartment, and, like, throw off what they're trying to do, so that's something that I'm kind of learning about as I go, but it's important to take into consideration.

Jane: Absolutely, and I think particularly when you're thinking about things like cacti succulents that might have been outdoors in the summer and then are coming indoors, I think this is what is known as the law of limiting factors, I was learning about this in my garden qualifications I've been doing, where whichever is the element that's in shortest supply, will be the thing that is restricting photosynthesis. In other words, if there is hardly any light but lots of heat, then that will be the factor that's restricting the plant's growth. And I guess the mistake that a lot of people make with cacti and succulents is that they bring them inside in a really warm room and they think, "Ok it's just going to rest now" but because it's really, really, warm the plants going to start stretching the looking for light, which is obviously, ends up with those Hechavarria's, that look like big fireworks that have kind of gone everywhere. The advice used to be in the kind of books, "Oh, put them in an unheated room" but I think, I don't know, but I think not many people have unheated rooms any more. People expect their houses to be 20 Centigrade, everywhere.

Stephen: Exactly. Not all of us have like a car, porch or a garage, like a lot of urban living.

Matthew: Especially in, like, urban apartment living, if you have an area that's unheated, that means that your whole area is unheated. We are pretty lucky being in an urban area because our winters are relatively warmer than adjacent suburban areas, and so plants that are marginally hardy here, I'll leave outside for their dormancy period, but just like move them closer to the sliding doors so that they're a little bit more sheltered. Maybe even like throw some burlap or canvas over them in order to help protect from the coldest weather. But I honestly avoid a lot of the really high-rise succulents for that exact reason. I don't want them to get etiolated when I bring them inside. But I do have a special window ledge that is kind of the hardest area for me to access, to water, because there are a lot of plants in front of it that need more attention, but it gets some of the highest light that I have available and I can just kind of ignore them a lot and occasionally just check to make sure that they're still doing well, that they're still healthy, or I'll also throw things underneath grill lights.

Stephen: I think it's a kind of a complicated period, like, you're both touching on. Like, you're going to change conditions for these plants, sometimes the dormancy has started, sometimes this seasonal growing has started or stopped. But yeah, whenever I bring these in, I try to do a bit of research about the seasonal growing of a plant, or its dormancy requirements, right, and then I bring it in and just really pay attention to is this drying out super quickly, is this footing on new growth. It's a bit case by case I think even when you have these guides about the plant's species.

Matthew: And something that Stephen does that is one of those best practices that I don't always follow, is that when he brings plants inside, he actually has a little quarantine zone where the conditions are as close to what they were outdoors as he can get them. But he can just kind of survey a plant to make sure that before he tucks it in among his really precious, like his orchids and nepenthes and everything, that he's not going to suddenly, like, introduce something that's going to wipe out plants that have been doing just fine until that point. I have enough house plants that I really don't have the space that I can easily quarantine, so I use my dining room table as that and so right now it's like piled up with plants and you can't use it for eating.

Stephen: I have seen this.

Jane: This is sounding familiar, this is sounding very familiar. I've got a greenhouse in my garden in which currently are all my -- almost all my -- cacti and succulents most of which now need to come into the house to probably where I am now, the office, which is quite cool most of the time but needs supplementing with grow lights. And then the agaves which are outside, need to go into the potting shed, into the greenhouse, and then I've got to find somewhere to put the other stuff that's been moved from different places in the house. It gets very complicated very quickly and I'll probably get it sorted out around March, just as I've got to start moving everything again that's the inevitable story.

Matthew: Isn't it though? Something that I actually kind of enjoy about this period is that, yes, it's a challenge and it does give you a lot of struggles to overcome but it gives me a really good kind of moment to pause, check in with all of my plants, because as I bring in the ones that were outside, that means that I have to reshuffle ones that are inside, and I'll do that throughout the year periodically but it's just a good re-set. And it also gives me a moment to sort of check in and determine like "Ok I tried this, I'm not going to really worry about it surviving because it hasn't performed it hasn't done the things that I was looking for it to do, and if it dies that'll be fine." And that's kind of a moment where I can assess and almost Marie Kondo my life and determine, like, what plants bring me joy and what ones are just taking up space.

Jane: So true, that's a really good point. And you know there are some plants that you just think, 'You've just let me down all year, I'm not going to take this, I'm just going to get rid of you. I'm just going to find a home for you somewhere else, or somebody else will take you or you'll end up in the compost heap' or something in the case that's in a dire state. And it's very freeing, it's a freeing moment, so that is a good thing. But I'm also inexplicably finding myself, like, scrolling through, you know, like, online plant websites looking at things to buy and thinking, I was doing it today and I was thinking, 'I cannot buy any more plants right now!' I've just been down a big plant swap with a listener and been given some gorgeous new plants, I can't, what am I doing?! But it's just that terrible tendency.

Matthew: I'm glad to hear how universal this is.

Stephen: Yes, and online shopping, there's no reason for that. That's every season.

Matthew: Like, I'm literally sitting waiting to see when this Platycerium ridleyi that I ordered is going to clear through customs from Thailand, so that I can get it potted and happy. I don't know where I'm going to put it...

Jane: That's sort of the ultimate, I think. When you're ordering stuff that's literally coming from the other side of the world and it's got to go through customs and have photo/sanitary certificates, you have reached the zenith of the plant obsession.

Matthew: But also, I recognize, like, I've also got several Philodendrons and Epiphyllum on the way, I don't know why I ordered them, but I need them.

Stephen: Meanwhile I wait for anything he doesn't have room for.

Jane: That's how it goes. And I love being able to, that's one thing I love being able to do, is, you know, when somebody comes to my house and, a lot of people will completely ignore the plants and just not get it at all, but you do get some people who come in and go, "Oh my gosh look at that plant!" and then you can kind of explain to them that it's a String of Pearls, and you'll happily give them a cutting because you think "Actually they're going to go and enjoy this plant and I've given them some guidance on how to look after it," and then they'll inevitably come back with questions to you. It's just nice to be able to spread that. It does mean that some of my plants are a little bit less full than they would otherwise be. My Hoya linearis you know just keeps getting bits taken off it because it's one of those plants that people always want a piece of, but I'm holding very firm on not allowing anyone to have any of my variegated String of Pearls, which is, yeah, I'm like, "No this is the special one, it cannot be cut at this time." So, yeah.

Matthew: I have Rhaphidophora tetrasperma which a lot people of know as like a mini Monstera, and it's a plant that I've had for years, and it's so dependable, it's so beautiful. And I have two pots of it that're just up against a wall, and so it has climbed the wall, and I've secured it with thumbtacks a little bit to help it stay in place, but that's one that people want cuttings of and I always have to kind of think like, 'Ok so it's growing really beautifully, where can I take a cutting and how much can I cut off?'

Stephen: Yeah and Matthew's promised me a cutting for several months now, so now it's on the record.

Jane: Well somebody, a listener, sent me a cutting, we did a swap. I sent them something and they sent me Rhaphidophora tetrasperma, and it's growing like billy-o. It's really putting on some heft. I'm amazed, so I need to start thinking about something for it to grow up because I've currently just left it kind of flopping all over the place, I need to sort that all out. But yeah, it's a great plant I'm very impressed with that one.

Matthew: They grow decently fine without being able to climb, but once you give them that, it just becomes a race up to the ceiling. Like if you're letting them grow on your wall like I am, but that's a plant I want to do some moss pulls for.

Jane: Yeah, it's a really great one, and it does seem to be getting more widely available here, so that's a good thing, I can imagine, if you don't have that much room, and I don't have that much room, and I've got like four Monstera deliciosas, so what am I talking about!? If you haven't got much room, it's quite nice that you've got that interesting leaf without the massive size that the deliciosa gets to. So yeah, there's an aroid for everybody, that's the way I look at it.

Matthew: Oh, it's so true. And another thing, while we're talking about winterizing, I have always tried to kind of push our hardiness zones by growing things on my balcony that can't really survive here but would do really well in the San Francisco Bay area, and my 2019 resolution was to avoid having to drag as much stuff in. So I'm growing plants out there right now that should be pretty hardy, like, that's kind of something that I think is kind of a test right now, but to see what I can get away with, but within reasonable boundaries, and I've been surprised at the number of aroids that are actually hardy in this zone, that I've been able to put on my balcony as part of my plantings. So even if you're in temperate areas, like, you can use them in garden plants or as permanent outdoor container plants.

Jane: Are you talking about a covered area, or like an area that's completely, like, covered but outside, or something that's completely open to the elements?

Matthew: Well, so my balcony is kind of like, half of it is sunk into the building itself so that's pretty sheltered, but the other half actually kind of just hangs out and it's like a third storey building on the apex of a hill. So, we have a lot of wind and a lot of outside exposure, but there is the cover of the balcony above as well. So there are plenty of plants that are mostly, like, kind of the deciduous native ones, like the Jack in the Pulpits or there's, I'm trying to think of the name, like Arum italicum, and those are all plants that do really, really well here and they might become invasive in this area because our winters are so mild that they won't kill off any newbie plants that developed the year before.

Jane: That's interesting, my garden and patio, I mean I've got this Begonia luxurians which is now a good, like, four foot tall and I did see that there's a tropical garden in Devon, which is in the southwest of the UK, that grows this outside in a pot all year round, and I'm thinking 'I could give this a try but I just don't think it's going to make it.' So I think my plan is I'm going to chop it back hard, I've already taken some cuttings, I'm going to take some more cuttings, and I'm going to bring it inside, but it's just about to flower, so I'm a bit tortured that it's going to have to be brutally hacked but we'll see. I mean I could put it in the greenhouse, but I just don't think it'll do any better in there. It's just it does get very cold out there. And what is your, do you have a houseplant bible? As any listeners of my show will know, I'm constantly on about one particular book, is there an equivalent book for you guys in the US? A houseplant bible that you like to refer to?

Matthew: You know, to be honest, I love books, I love reading, I love researching plants to but I don't turn to books for them typically because when I was a child, I just poured through all these different kind of vintage gardening books that my grandmothers had, and there were a lot of really great ideas and thoughts, but they're all very out of date now between, like, the kinds of names that they're using, all the way down to like whether you need to treat something like this precious hot house tropical, that now we just grow indoors, like normal, like Anthuriums. So, what I do is, I honestly love listening to plant podcasts because there are so many amazing perspectives and ideas that are being shared, and you're talking directly with other growers a lot of the time who are talking about their own current experience with plants that are currently available. And other than listening to podcasts, I use a lot of websites. Like I'm a huge fan of several publications, like there's one called 'Plants are the Strangest People.'

Jane: I love that blog! I tried to get them to do an interview for me and they were so nice but they didn't want to do it and I was so devastated and I buttered them up so hard, I was so like, I was like referencing my favourite posts and I was, like, really trying to make them see that I was a massive fan, and they still said no. It's the best isn't it?!

Matthew: I now know not to try that myself because I would've been on that path as well.

Jane: Feel free to try, it may have just been me. You know like it's always worth a go, but that's such a great recommendation because it is a really great place to go for planty stuff.

Matthew: Are you familiar with Dave's Garden?

Jane: I am familiar with Dave's Garden. Who is Dave? That's what I don't know. Is Dave an actual person?

Matthew: Whether he's a real person or not, I absolutely love being able to look at the general cultural parameters, but my favourite spot is reading the reviews that other people have.

Stephen: Exactly, yeah.

Matthew: Because, like, even if I'm reading and this person obviously is really not growing this plant, they have something that's adjacent or they're not offering anything valuable, there are far more that are really useful, and it's a great tool to see where people are because I know that a recommendation that's coming out of south Texas isn't going to apply to me, but I can always find somebody that's growing in a climate that close enough to where we are that it's an invaluable resource.

Jane: And what about Instagram? I mean, obviously Instagram is all about the photos, but there are some really educational Instagram houseplant people out there; who do you follow in that field?

Matthew: I've got to say, I've listened to your back catalogue and one of my favourite things is how every time you have a new guest on, it seems to be somebody that I have just been drooling over their photos, like James Wong's terrariums, like oh my goodness. His whole thing with the water lilies and bowls has been something that I've wanted to try since I was probably 13 years old, so I think that seeing what he's done was kind of like the kick in the pants that I needed, and I've already started researching like the best water lilies for indoor culture, lower light conditions, reliable blooming. Honestly, like, we just love Instagram because the community has so many different niche interests that you can always connect with somebody, and we've had fantastic luck. Like when we were both starting out growing Stephania erecta, there was not very much information online about it, like there was not even a Wikipedia page Stephania erecta, so we found other growers on Instagram and just reached out and were asking questions like, "Hey yours is so bushy and full, what're you doing?" and we learned that a lot of cultural parameters, that the sources where you can buy their tubers, they're not giving you the best information. And then when you talk to a grower they're saying, "Oh yeah put it in full sun, it likes the most sun and most heat that you can give it," whereas everything that we saw was like 'These are low light plants that want to stay moist but don't give them direct sun.' And that was completely misleading, based on, like, what we were doing, and so just, you know, getting some tips from experienced growers really allowed us to develop some success and certain areas that we were struggling in before.

Stephen: Yeah, it's really as simple as searching a hashtag, right? You can see who posted recently, who might be responsive and really, yeah, with that plant in particular, I would say Instagram was kind of the main way we got information.

Matthew: And also, like, the fern leaf cactus, the Selenicereus chrysocardium, that's another one where there's not great, reliable information. So especially when a plant is relatively new to the houseplant market, or at least the United States houseplant Market, if there's not reliable information online, social media is the best place to go. I've also used Facebook groups. Like we were at a Cactus and Succulents Society meeting a few weeks ago. They had a rare plant sale that was just fantastic and I bought this really, really beautiful vining pisiform plant, and it looked like a Cissus to me, but I couldn't figure it out and I couldn't read the handwriting on the tag.

Stephen: Yeah like there's a particular grower here that grows, like, amazing obscure succulents. I've had this exact experience where you see it on something.

Matthew: But I just took some photos of this plant and posted them on a succulent identification Facebook group with as many details as I had, and it didn't take long before somebody was like "Oh yeah this is such and such," and I can't remember the name off the top of my head but it's a pretty rare plant that there's not a lot of information online, so it's not as easy as just going onto Google and just typing in, like, caudiciform vines with tendrils and three pinnate leaves, like. Often you can come up with a result that way, but that wasn't working for me that time.

Jane: Well that's really great to hear. Well it's really nice to talk to you guys and thank you very much for joining me today. And good luck with your continuing juggle and winterizing all your plants, and yeah, we'll get through it by about February and by then we'll be ready to start again, I guess.

Matthew: Thank you so much for having us on it was a pleasure to talk to you.

Stephen: Yeah, thanks.

Jane: Thanks guys!

[music]

Jane: If you are not already subscribed to the Plant Daddy podcast, sort it out! You can listen and find out more at www.PlantDaddyPodcast.com, and episode 20 just so happens to include an interview with me. If you want to hear more from Stephen and Matthew, and you happen to be a Patreon Subscriber, next week you'll be able to hear them talking about Darlingtonias, in An Extra Leaf, episode number 36.

Before we get onto this week's Q&A, I wanted to bring you up to date with developments on last week's Q&A, Charlotte's question about a, well she thought it was Pilea peperomioides in a Montreal café, and we've had some interesting leads on this already. Amber got in touch to suggest that it could be a Ruby Red Begonia. They say it's sort of light with red stems and they've been looking for one. Either way, if anyone knows where to get one of those, I'd love to know. Me too, actually Amber, this is a really, really beautiful begonia. I think the Latin name is Begonia conchifolia var. rubrimacula. The conchifolia bit refers to the leaves, conchifolia meaning 'shell shaped leaves,' which are more or less round and with a red dot in the centre from where the petal descends. So, this is a contender for Charlotte's mystery plant. I don't know where you are Amber, but this does seem to be available on the Our Flora website, which is a Dutch online nursery, so that's one place that you might be able to get it from. Also, one of our listeners has set up a begonia Facebook group, specifically for begonia lovers in the UK, called 'UK Begonia Growers Share Info Buy Sell and Trade.' So, if you happen to be in the UK it's worth joining this group, and maybe somebody there might be able to help you with this plant. And then I got a message from Nanette, who sent me a picture of her Pilea peperomioides bought back in August, which, dare I say it, it looks like a Pilea peperomioides with very red stems. Now, it's worth saying that I have seen Pilea peperomioides -- the Chinese money plant -- with slightly reddened stems, but this really is quite dark red. So, this got me thinking, maybe it was a Pilea peperomioides after all. So, I headed over to a really useful Facebook group called Pilea peperomioides Connection and had a search there for any posts about this plant having red stems. And indeed, I did turn up a few posts on this subject. And the suggestion was that the Chinese money plants that are showing these red stems are not a different form or cultivar, but that this has been caused by carbon dioxide enrichment in the glasshouse where they were grown. Specifically, these plants came from a website called Ruby's Plants, which doesn't seem to exist any more, but anyway. I then went searching for information about the effects of carbon dioxide enrichment on plants in glasshouses, and one of the effects I found was indeed an increase in anthocyanins, not specifically in this species, but in other plants including lettuce. So there seems to be a suggestion that this could just be a result of the plant being exposed to more carbon dioxide and reacting by producing more anthocyanins in the stem.

And people did report that once they took the plants home, that the redness gradually faded so this really doesn't take us much further on a definitive view of what this Montreal café had, whether it was a Pilea peperomioides that had just come out of a glasshouse where the environment was being enriched by carbon dioxide or whether it was the Peperomia monticola that I suggested, or indeed whether it was the Begonia conchifolia, but it's great to have some ideas. And hot off the press just into my email inbox, is a message from somebody who listens to the podcast and lives in Montreal who's willing to go on a mission. So now I just need to hook them up with the information about the café, and I will give you further updates as they turn up! I'm on tenterhooks, I don't know about you. This is about as exciting as my life gets right now. Oh no, tell a lie, there was the incident at the weekend where I knocked over a plant, I went to get the dust pan and brush to clear up the mess, and when flicking the brush around, I managed to stick one of the plastic filaments of the brush into the extension cable that had the WiFi box attached to it, and caused a small electrical moment, a little electrical spark, which blew out all of the sockets downstairs... so that was fun. Yeah, that was probably the most plant related excitement of the week.

Anyway, lets get on to the question for this week which come from Ashley. Ashley lives in Massachusetts in the US which is a zone 6 hardiness, I suspect this is a bit like the UK, maybe a bit colder in the winter, so we're talking sub-zero temperatures in the cold period of the year. And Ashley wants to know whether the beautiful ferns and English ivy that grow outside would be ok to bring home and try growing inside. Ashley says, "It's free, abundant, and very tempting, but is this a recipe for disaster?" Ashley's worried about pests and where she should quarantine these plants, and also whether they'd survive indoors all year round. So, let's take these questions in turn.

First of all, pests, yes, any new plant that you're bringing inside from any outside environment, be it the great outdoors, or a nursery, or somebody else's home, should be quarantined if you possibly can. Ideally a separate room, certainly a good six foot away from any other plants, more if possible, just so you can check that there's not mealybug creeping about or aphids on tender tips of growth or anything like that. Sometimes things aren't apparent at first so if you can quarantine, do. So that's that part of it, but then we're onto the more serious issues of whether these plants would survive indoors. Well English ivy, Hedera helix, you will see it listed in houseplant books as something that you can grow indoors. Personally, I find it to be one of those plants that actually doesn't do particularly well in a centrally-heated home. If you've got an old-school home, which has only got certain rooms heated or you've got unheated rooms or rooms that are cold for most of the time, then English ivy is certainly something to try, probably do well in that kind of environment, but it doesn't like hot, dry air that most of us have in our homes in winter. It tends to get spider bite, look miserable, and it's hard to get the watering levels right on this plant. So, the Hedera helix is something that is possible, but possibly not advisable, depending on your environs. And bear in mind there's lots of similar plants that you can grow that aren't English ivy but look similar and will grow well indoors. I'm thinking of things like Swedish Ivy, Plectranthus verticillatus, which is a lovely fleshy leaved plant with ivy-ish leaves which grow very well indoors and is super easy. Senecio brianifolis, which is not that easy to get a hold of but is a wonderful houseplant and very, very easy to grow if you can get your hands on it, and of course the pothos plants, of which there are many. Things like Epipremnum aureum, and so on. So, ivy is a lovely thought, but you'll know whether it loves your home fairly quickly.

And the ferns, well, generally ferns are divided into ferns that are hardy, that will grow outside in sub-zero temperatures in winter with no problem, and those that are for more tropical, subtropical environments, those tend to be the ones that we bring indoors. And I suspect that if you take the ferns from outside that are growing successfully there, Ashley, that they're probably going to be pretty miserable there in your house. The conditions are going to be so different, particularly in winter, and they may well struggle.

Which brings us neatly to the third issue, which is, well, should you be taking plants from outside anyway? It all depends on the context that you're in. So, for example, if a friend has lots of English ivy in their garden, it's absolutely fine to dig some of that up and try growing that in your house, provided that they have given permission for you to do so, or to take some cuttings, roots and cuttings of some ivy. And similarly, any ferns that are growing outside, if you think you might want to give them a try, and if they're growing in somebody's garden and you've got permission, then certainly give it a whirl and see how you get on. Where we get on to more shaky ground, is anywhere outside a garden, or any piece of land where you've gained permission from the land owner. If you are sourcing plants from places, which are wild or semi-wild, then it's really something to stop and think about because not only is it unethical to pick plants from the wild, you also may run into problems with laws where you live. Obviously it depends on what part of the world you're in. Here in the UK, certainly, there are laws against digging up plants in the wild and certain plants, and some of them are indeed ferns that are rare in the wild, are specially protected. So, it's something to really think hard about before you go and do.

There are other ways you could collect ferns, for example collecting spores. Again, I would speak to a fern expert in your area who might be able to tell you if there are any ferns that might grow well indoors. But otherwise, do investigate the wonderful world of ferns because there are lots of sub-tropical and tropical ferns, that're very similar looking to the hardy ferns that we find in gardens in the US and the UK which look very similar so it maybe that you can find what you're looking for without having to go down the road of digging things up. I guess it's very tempting to see free plant material and think 'Oh I must have that' but it's always worth exercising caution. The wilder the environment, the more it needs protecting, so just bear that in mind and always, always, always ask permission from the land owner before you go and take anything. It's tempting to think that just taking one small cutting or digging up one little plant isn't going to make a difference to any environment, but if everyone who visited did that, then there would be nothing left and unfortunately plant poaching is a problem in many parts of the world. And this is a subject I'd like to get into in a future episode, looking at the plants that are really under threat in the wild because of the way that they are taken from their natural environment by poachers, including things like the lovely Venus Flytrap, which we investigated in the Venus Flytrap episode many moons ago now and also things like the succulent Dudleya in California which is being taken advantage of by unscrupulous poachers from its native environment in California. I'll put a piece in the show notes to a piece about that.

Well, Ashley, I hope that's given you food for thought and do have a try of those ivy-like plants, and also some ivy as well. It's easy enough to get a hold of from many different shops if you can't source some cuttings from friends who're already growing it.

And if you've got a question for on the ledge, you know what to do. Email me, .

[music]

Jane: That's it for On The Ledge this week, I'll be back next Friday for more foliage fun. Bye!

[music]

Jane: The music in this week's episode was Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, An Instrument the Boy Called Happy Day Gorkana by Samuel Corwin, and The Encouragement Stick by Doctor Turtle. Ad music was Whistling Rufus by the Heftone Banjo Orchestra. All tracks are licensed under Creative Commons, see www.janeperrone.com for details.

Subscribe to On The Ledge via Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Player FM, Stitcher, Overcast, RadioPublic and YouTube.

The transition from summer to autumn to winter is a bit of a puzzle: the spaces in your home where plants have been shifted outside have inevitably been filled with other plants, and the outside plants have grown huge. Do you even have space for all these plants?

So this week I chat about the challenges of getting houseplants ready for winter with the lovely Stephen and Matthew of the Plant Daddy podcast. Who are the Plant Daddies? They are two gay millennials who’ve been bringing intersectional horticulture to your earbuds since the summer, and are making a very welcome addition to the plant podcast scene. Plus, more on the mystery Peperomia from episode 112, and I answer a question on ferns and ivies.

More on this week’s guests…

• Find out more about the Plant Daddy podcast

• Listen to episode 20 of the Plant Daddy podcast featuring, er, me! 

• Follow the Plant Daddies on Instagram

• Patreon subscribers: look out for the next edition of my bonus podcast An Extra Leaf, coming in the next few days featuring the Plant Daddies talking about Darlingtonias.

Top tips for getting your plants ready for winter from the Plant Daddies

1. If your plants are outside, check them thoroughly for pests before bring them inside: examine every leaf surface for aphids, thrips or scale and the like, especially on new growth and underneath leaves. beneficial insects will help to keep pests down on plants outside, but it’s still worth checking carefully for them so you don’t import anything inside.

2. Don’t forget about soil-based pests too: take the plant from its pot and check for root mealy bugs, slugs and snails and vine weevil larvae. If you find you have vine weevils, you can remove the c-shaped creamy larvae, or used a nematode worm biological control. 

3. When you bring plants inside, try to quarantine them away from plants that have remained indoors, ideally in a spot where conditions mimic the outside conditions they are used to as closely as possible. 

4. You can spray plants down outside or in the shower or bath to remove dust and dislodge pests.  If you have an issue with pests, you can spray foliage with a solution of neem oil or insecticidal soap. in more serious cases, Matthew uses a systemic pesticide spray or granules but always follow the instructions to the letter - some plants such as carnivorous plants are very sensitive to such sprays, so do check it’s suitable for your plants before going ahead.  

5. Then gradually acclimatise them to their new conditions and once you are sure they are free of pests, assimilate them into the rest of your plant collection.

6. Check which plants need a period of dormancy - this applies to some carnivorous plants and most cacti and succulents. Bringing these plants inside to a room with warm dry air can stop them from slowing down and lead to etiolation or delay flower production come spring. If you live in a temperate climate in an urban setting like Seattle  there may be some plants that can be left outdoors but moved closed to the shelter of a wall, or protected from the rain.

7. Pay attention to how your plant reacts to changing conditions at this time of year and be prepared to adjust things if it starts to show signs of stress.

8. Use this chance to check in with your plants and determine which ones aren’t bringing your joy - and don’t be afraid to ‘Marie Kondo’ these ones out of your life!

QUESTION OF THE WEEK

First, an update on listener Charlotte’s Peperomia mystery from episode 112: listener Amber suggested the plant in question could be Begonia conchifolia var. rubrimacula, aka the ruby red begonia, while Nanette sent me images of a Pilea peperomioides she bought over the summer which - shock - has red stems!

View fullsize

Nanette’s red-stemmed Pilea Peperomioides.

I did some digging over at the Facebook group Pilea peperomioides connection and did read lots of reports of Chinese money plants with red stems, and the suggestion was that this was caused by carbon dioxide enrichment in glasshouses where they are grown.

I did some research and found evidence that carbon dioxide enrichment can cause the production of extra anthocyanins - red pigments - in certain plants, although not specifically Pileas. (Have a look at the paper I found here.) The redness reportedly faded once people got the plants home, which would make sense as the plant reacts to regular carbon dioxide levels.

A Montreal-based listener has offered to head off to the cafe in question this week, so stay tuned for further updates!

And now onto this week’s question.

Ashley lives in Massachusetts in the US and wants to know whether she can try bringing into her home ferns and ivies she sees growing outside to grow as houseplants. There are a few things to consider here: the primary one is that most ferns and ivies that grow outside in this climate probably won’t be happy in the indoors environment, especially in winter.

Plus, digging plants up must only be done with the permission of the landowner, and plants shouldn’t be taken from wild or semi-wild environments: plant material may seem plentiful but disturbing ecosystems by removing plants may be illegal depending on where you live, and is certainly an ethical no-no in my opinion. That said, if you have a friend with a garden full of English ivy or ferns, provided they are willing that’s not so much of an issue. In terms of pests, quarantine any plants you’d bring inside in the normal way and check for pests as described above.

Want to ask me a question? Email ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com. The more information you can include, the better - pictures of your plant, details of your location and how long you have had the plant are always useful to help solve your issue!

---

THIS WEEK’S SPONSOR

Michael Perry shows off the Tranquil Suite. Photograph: Jane Perrone.

THE JOY OF PLANTS

What happens if you fill a hotel suite with gorgeous houseplants?

The Joy of Plants decided to find out, enlisting the help of three top planty people. Each of the three jungle hotel suites at the Leman Locke hotel in London evoke a different theme: the Productivity suite designed by biophilic designer Oliver Heath, the Tranquil suite designed by Michael Perry aka Mr Plant Geek, and the Romance suite by Nik Southern of East London florists Grace and Thorn. I was lucky enough to stay in the productivity suite earlier this week, and I can confirm that being surrounded by houseplants all night long left me feeling wonderful in the morning!

Find out more about biophilic design and how houseplants can benefit your life at https://www.thejoyofplants.co.uk/introducing-uks-first-jungle-hotel-suites.

The Joy of Plants' indoor plant jungle hotel suites are open for bookings until November 10 2019. Book your stay by emailing thejoyofplants@lockeliving.com.

---

HOW TO SUPPORT ON THE LEDGE

Contributions from On The Ledge listeners help to pay for all the things that have made the show possible over the last few years: equipment, travel expenses, editing, admin support and transcription.

Want to make a one-off donation? You can do that through my ko-fi.com page, or via Paypal.

Want to make a regular donation? Join the On The Ledge community on Patreon! Whether you can only spare a dollar or a pound, or want to make a bigger commitment, there’s something for you: see all the tiers and sign up for Patreon here.

• The Crazy Plant Person tier just gives you a warm fuzzy feeling of supporting the show you love.

• The Ledge End tier gives you access to two extra episodes a month, known as An Extra Leaf, as well as ad-free versions of the main podcast on weeks where there’s a paid advertising spot, and access to occasional patron-only Zoom sessions.

• My Superfan tier earns you a personal greeting from me in the mail including a limited edition postcard, as well as ad-free episodes.

If you like the idea of supporting On The Ledge on a regular basis but don't know what Patreon's all about, check out the FAQ here: if you still have questions, leave a comment or email me - ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com. If you're already supporting others via Patreon, just click here to set up your rewards!

If you prefer to support the show in other ways, please do go and rate and review On The Ledge on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever you listen. It's lovely to read your kind comments, and it really helps new listeners to find the show. You can also tweet or post about the show on social media - use #OnTheLedgePodcast so I’ll pick up on it!

CREDITS

This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, An Instrument the Boy Called Happy Day Gorkana by Samuel Corwin, and The Encouragement Stick by Doctor Turtle. Ad music was  Whistling Rufus by the Heftone Banjo Orchestra. All tracks are licensed under Creative Commons.

Logo design by Jacqueline Colley.