Episode 179: citrus and more with HGTV’s Marianne Canada

Transcript

Episode 179

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Jane: Hello, it's On The Ledge; the podcast about houseplants - the plants that live in your house! I'm your host, Jane Perrone, and whether this is your first ever episode or you're a seasoned listener, welcome to the show! This week is a guest swap with the HGTV Obsessed podcast. I talk to Marianne Canada, who is executive producer and lifestyle expert at HGTV.com, about how to keep citrus plants happy inside your home, the best colours to paint your wall to show off your houseplants and why we both love thrift shops. If you check out the show notes, you can visit the HGTV Obsessed podcast, where you can hear me talking houseplants with Marianne in their latest episode. Plus. in this here podcast, I'll be answering a question about the confusing names we give the Swiss Cheese Plant.

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Jane: Thanks for joining me this week, I hope you managed to find something to do with yourself in the absence of On The Ledge last week. I've been pricking out my Hoya seedlings and sowing tomatoes and chilies. Do check out those On The Ledge sowalong episodes and there will be more. I'm hoping to do a special OTL sowalong-related visit in a month or two, which will be very exciting if it comes off. I can't tell you anything more right now because it's top secret, but look out for that one.

Thank you to GaborS and ANoonMoose for leaving reviews for On The Ledge in the UK and GingerGirl from the US for leaving a review also. There's been a flurry of new Patreon subscribers, Meg of Southside Plants became a SuperFan. Katarina, Neely, Lynne, Sarah and Reya all became Ledge-ends and Amanda and Aaron became Crazy Plant People. Welcome to you all! Visit the show notes at janeperrone.com to find out how to become a Patreon and unlock extra bonus episodes and more.

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Jane: If you've spent the last year staring at four walls and wondering why you haven't got around to redecorating, putting up those shelves, or turning that spare room into an indoor greenhouse, then HGTV may be the American TV channel you've turned to and HGTV has recently dipped its toes into the world of podcasting with a new show called HGTV Obsessed and I was delighted to be asked to do a guest swap. So I appeared on their show and their executive producer and lifestyle expert, Marianne Canada, chatted to me for On The Ledge. As is often the case with an On The Ledge interview, it was a wide-ranging chat. We started out talking about citrus and how to keep them happy as house plants and ranged over everything from me repainting my front room, to the delights of Victory Modular Furniture and why I'm obsessed with the Commander Pear. Intrigued? Well, let us delay no more and hear from Marianne Canada!

Marianne: Hi everyone, I'm Marianne Canada. I'm an executive producer for HGTV Handmade and the co-host of the HGTV Obsessed podcast.

Jane: I love swaps and this is what this is; an interview swap. So I'm really excited to have you on the show, Marianne! Just tell us a little bit about the HGTV Obsessed podcast, for those who haven't come across it - what you do there and what the podcast is all about.

Marianne: Thank you so much for having me, Jane! I'm so honoured to be here. I'm so impressed with what you've done in the past four years in the houseplant and podcast space. The HGTV Obsessed podcast is still a relatively new podcast and it's the first official podcast from HGTV, so what you can expect to find there is a combination of interviews with HGTV stars, but also a lot of really helpful information. We take listener questions, we draw on the years and years of expertise that we have at HGTV, so it's really about all things home and garden with a little bit of fun thrown in. We always try to get a little bit of inside scoop from our HGTV stars and I'm just so excited to be one of the new co-hosts.

Jane: It's amazing, isn't it? I think the pandemic has focused our minds even more than ever on our homes and making them into nice places to be. I didn't really know what a flipper was until about a year ago. In houseplant terms, a flipper is somebody who buys a houseplant at IKEA or Lowe's, chops it up and sells it on Facebook, but it's something a bit different with houses, isn't it? I have to admit to being a complete DIY, as we would say here in the UK - we probably wouldn't, it's probably just me - but I would call myself a DIY plonker, which basically means, if I try to clean a light, I'm thinking, half the ceiling's coming down! I'm taking something apart, it's all going to go pear-shaped! So I need all the help I can get with my general house zhooshing up and decoration and interior design! I am severely lacking.

Marianne: You're not alone out there. There are a lot of people who very quickly get in over their heads. There's a children's book called If You Give a Mouse a Cookie and sometimes I think that people get in that mindset with DIY, where they start one thing and then next thing you know, like you said, you go to switch a light bulb out and next thing you know, half the ceiling has come down and you're replacing all of the light fixtures and then you need to paint and if you paint one area then the rest of the house doesn't look as good anymore. I do think that's a very common challenge.

Jane: It really is and, in fact, the only thing that really motivates me to do that kind of thing is plant-related. So I have had some brilliant things that I've picked up on Facebook Marketplace for free and it's often that I need something for my plants, so I bought a brilliant round coffee table with a lid that slides, so you can store stuff inside it and I've got it in my front room. The person was giving it away because it was white and it was a little bit like their children had drawn on it a little bit, but I'm thinking I'm just going to stick some paint on that and I'm going to make it look amazing. Do you know what I used? I used outside fence paint that was dark grey!

Marianne: Oh, brilliant!

Jane: I don't know, it probably shouldn't have worked, but it looks amazing and it's this amazing piece of furniture that I got for free and looks great with my all my Snake Plants on it! So really, that's the only thing that motivates me to do that DIY task, is something for my precious plants, which I guess is not that surprising. Now, I hear that you've got a bit of a knack for growing citrus indoors and I have to say, this is one of my weak spots in terms of houseplants. I have killed quite a few citrus, so I need to know some inside track on this! Tell me about what citrus you've tried and how it works. What techniques do you use to keep your citrus trees happy indoors?

Marianne: There really are a few tricks to it. I actually really believe that if you keep a few things in mind, anyone can successfully grow indoor citrus. The number one thing that I think people forget is considering the environment that citrus trees normally thrive in. Here, in the States, they grow in Florida. They grow in California, they're used to lots and lots of sunlight and regular rainfall, so when you're trying to bring something indoors that normally is happiest outdoors, you do need to do a little more homework than you would. For example, you mentioned a Snake Plant. I once bought a Snake Plant and accidentally forgot about it in my garage for a month, brought it inside and it was no more worse for wear. A citrus tree is not going to be that forgiving.

Jane: Yes, that's really true.

Marianne: There's several things to consider but the first thing is the pot that you put it in. You really want a big enough pot. These trees have pretty dense root structures, so you really want a big enough pot that has good drainage. You're going to need to re-pot a healthy citrus tree every three or four years or so, so you really want to give it room to grow. Water must be able to freely drain right out. A soggy bottom, soggy roots, will kill your citrus trees faster than anything. They're like succulents in that way that you can love them too much. I think that people sometimes get really enamoured with their plants and they want to give it water every day and, with citrus plants, you do want to really water them deeply but only when the pot is close to dry. So about every seven to ten days depending on the humidity levels. Then you need to think about the soil. Again thinking about where they thrive. It often has soil that has a healthy amount of sand mixed in, so I really recommend a soil that is made for citrus plants. You can buy it at your local home improvement or garden centre, and then mix in some hardwood mulch. I like cedar mulch. It smells nice, it doesn't have any dyes or additives, so about 1/3 mulch to 2/3 potting medium. Citrus trees love nitrogen. Look for a fertiliser made for citrus and then, the biggest thing, sunlight! Citrus trees need bright, direct sunlight, about six to eight hours of light a day is perfect. A growlight can definitely help. I saw that you had a growlight pointed at your plants behind you and that is great, but you really want to take a hard look at your home and your space and figure out the best spot for them. My number one secret, this really is my number one tip with citrus trees, is to put them on a wheeled plant stand so you can move them around. Throughout the year, the sun changes its angles and how it comes into your house, so don't be afraid to wheel your citrus plants around the home and even outside. They really love to be outdoors. It gives them a chance to be pollinated naturally and, plus, I feel a little bit like I'm at Versailles when I wheel my citrus trees outdoors for the summer.

Jane: That's a really good tip, yes, because you're right, you need to have it in a decent-sized pot. I think there is a real tendency to think that, indoors, you've got to stick everything in small pots just for convenience, but they do need a big pot. Yes, something on wheels is fantastic for just those little adjustments because I find that plants do need to be moved, even non-citrus, the conditions will vary so much throughout the course of the year that something's happy in the spring in one spot won't be happy there come summer, so yes, wheels are the way to go! I've seen these little mini-wheeled... I don't know what you call them, wheeled platforms that you can... is that something you get from IKEA?

Marianne: Certainly! Very inexpensive - just around $10. You can get something pretty sturdy because especially when you factor in water and everything, it will get pretty heavy. They're very easy to come by and a lot of them double as a drainage tray, so it kills two birds with one stone.

Jane: That is the tip I like; saving time! Let's talk about the fruits on these citrus. Do you get fruits? I know sometimes you can buy them with the fruits already on, but my imagination tells me the mark of achievement would be getting new fruits to grow from scratch?

Marianne: Yes, you do get fruits! I think it's very important when you're doing your research and when you're looking to buy a citrus tree to grow indoors, really take a moment and think about your variety. I love grapefruit, but grapefruits, they're very large fruits, they really take a long time, they like a lot of heat to really bring out that sweetness. So when you are thinking about growing something indoors, I have two varieties that are my absolute favourite and that I think will really set you up for success. One is a dwarf Meyer Lemon Tree. These are great because, at their full size, they are only about four feet tall, so they are again easy to move around and to move outdoors when it's warm and sunny outside and they will produce fruit. It's the most delicious. I don't know if you've ever had the pleasure of trying a Meyer lemon, but they are almost like a cross between a sour orange and a traditional lemon. They have this beautiful really deep orange yellow skin that makes delicious zest. You can use them just like a regular lemon in all of your recipes. They're so delicious, they're so fragrant and just very beautiful, very pleasing to look at. So I really love a dwarf Meyer Lemon Tree and you can buy Meyer lemons in the shop and these will taste comparable, they are kind of a gourmet ingredient, so they can be a little pricier. I do always tell people it's a folly to think that you're going to have any real savings when you're trying to grow your own fruit and vegetables.

Jane: Per lemon, it's probably not a saving!

Marianne: Exactly, it's not, but it's so satisfying. I mean, what is more satisfying than walking over to your lemon tree in your kitchen and pulling off a lemon for that night's salad dressing!? The other citrus tree that I really love, that is less common, that you're not going to find in a grocery store, is the Calamondin orange. These are beautiful, beautiful trees. They can get quite tall but it's a lovely, airy structure. They have very fragrant flowers and produce these tiny, tart oranges. They're so tart, you can actually substitute them for lemon. They make a great curd or marmalade and they are wonderful in a cocktail. I have made Calamondin margaritas before and they're just outrageously delicious and they're very beautiful. They're just very pretty to look at, even if you never picked an orange, but they do really well. Both of those don't need as much sunlight as some other more finicky citrus plants might, again, about six to eight hours, and they really need darkness too. It's like all of us - they need their time to rest! People might think, "Oh, citrus needs sunlight!" and they're just going to keep that growlight on 24 hours a day! You really want to give your plants time to rest, time to go dormant, so that they can produce all of that beautiful fruit.

Jane: That's absolutely true. There's so many citrus out there, that's the wonderful thing, and I think we just assume that it's just what we see in the shops, but there are so many cool citrus out there. The one that I've been interested in is the yuzu, which is a very trendy ingredient here right now. I don't know how well they grow indoors. This is fairly typical of me - I'm also stalking a Commander's Pear! Have you ever heard of a Commander's Pear? It's actually a citrus fruit. So the intelligence, from my hairdresser, who went to a spa not far from me and said, "They've got this amazing citrus tree in the garden and it's got these amazing fruits on it and I really want to get one of these trees for my garden." So I did some research for her. Turns out that it's Citrus Lumia Pyriformis, which is the Commander's Pear, which is a pear-shaped citrus fruit that grows outdoors here in the UK. I'm going to be going over there later in the year, to this spa, and wandering about the car park looking for this tree. I don't think that's one for indoors, but there's so many cool citrus out there. It's a wonderful group of fruits and plenty to explore. You mentioned grapefruits. I have a feeling that there are some grapefruits you can grow outdoors here as well. I think there are some quite hardy ones.

Marianne: Yes, with you living in the UK, a quick search for cold hardy citrus fruits will really help you out. That's interesting - yuzu is not something I had considered but it is one of those exotic trendy ingredients in restaurants right now and how cool would it be to have that growing in your home? There's also something called a finger lime. Have you ever seen a finger lime? They come out of Australia.

Jane: Is it like Buddha's Hand, or is that a different thing? They're spindly?

Marianne: Buddha's Hands almost look like something from a horror movie! No, finger limes are these small limes with very thin skin and the inside of them almost looks like caviar. They're very sweet. You can eat them out of hand and I have heard that they can be grown successfully indoors because they are tropical plant, but they grow closer to the forest floor, so they're more shade-tolerant. So that's on my list to try out because I think my kids would think they were fun.

Jane: That does sound fun. The world of citrus is large and interesting and I think those are definitely ones we want to try out, but I will let people know about my Commander's Pear experience. If I get arrested at the spa, then you'll hear about it, "Woman stealing fruit from tree!". But anyway...

Marianne: We'll have to arrange for your bail!

Jane: Yes, please do. Let's move on from citrus. One of the things I wanted to talk about is just some differences between North American and UK homes and how that impacts on houseplants, if at all, indeed. I've got lots of family in Canada and I want to say all the homes, but perhaps that's untrue, but lots of homes are open plan as opposed to here, where we have separate rooms connected by doors and there are open plan homes but they tend to be fewer in number. Does an open plan home have any impact in terms of growing stuff and how you arrange things, or how you care for things? I'm just thinking about draughts and potential display options with open plan?

Marianne: You're right. We've definitely seen a trend in the US towards more of an open floor plan. We've really seen that in the past, I would say, 20 years. It's been an increasingly popular trend. Interestingly enough, Covid might be the thing that drives us all back to putting more walls back up. All of us having a little space, being able to close a door and have some privacy is suddenly a lot more appealing. In terms of plants, I think the nicest thing about an open floor plan is going back to moving your plants around the house to take advantage of the light changing throughout the year. That's definitely going to be easier in an open floor plan house. In general, they often tend to have more windows because that light can really penetrate the whole house. For example, in my own dining room, which is open to my kitchen just like you said, I've got floor-to-ceiling windows. So in the winter, when the sun is at this right angle, I tend to move a lot of my tropical plants into my dining room. I have a very large copper tray that I put on the floor to protect my floors and I move my giant Elephant Ear into the dining room, I move my Monstera plant into the dining room because that's the best light for that time of year and it really does fill the whole front of the house with sunlight.

Jane: The grass is always greener, isn't it? British people perhaps are envious of the open plan idea, but then I like to be able to shut myself away occasionally and get some peace and quiet, so maybe as you say, it does have its benefits.

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Jane: We'll be back with Marianne in a few minutes but now it's time for Question of the Week and this one comes from Clara who, like so many people, got into houseplants during the course of the pandemic. Clara, again, like so many of us, has got a Swiss Cheese Plant on her wish list but she's finding the array of different names these plants go by rather confusing. Is it Monstera deliciosa, Philodendron Monstera deliciosa, Philodendron Monstera, Split Leaf Philodendron, or something else? Clara's discovered that Monstera and Philodendron are two separate genera, so she wants to know, can there be such a thing as a Philodendron Monstera? Great question Clara and there's a lot to unpack here, so let's get going!

First off, Monstera and Philodendron, you are right, they are different genera. So the genus Monstera and the genus Philodendron, they're both members of the Araceae family, the Aroids, so they are related. So a genus is the plant equivalent of a surname, the group of species to which the plant belongs, so if something's in the Philodendron genus it can't be described as a Monstera, although you do sometimes find that Latin names will refer to other genera. For example, I'm thinking of the classic Pilea peperomioides which, if you've listened to all the episodes of this show, you will know is the Chinese Money Plant. So Pilea is the genus and peperomioides that means that it resembles the genus peperomia, so a Pilea that looks like a peperomia. That does sometimes happen, but it doesn't mean the Pilea is a peperomia it just means it looks a bit like one.

I think there's a lot of confusion about the Swiss Cheese Plant for a few different reasons. Firstly because growers don't always put the importance into Latin names that perhaps the botanists and the taxonomists do. To them, it's just about putting a nice label on the plant that will sell it and give people a rough idea of what it is. So they're not so worried about accuracy. So the Monstera ends up being called Split Leaf Philodendron because it's got split leaves and it looks a bit like a Philodendron. It ends up being called Philodendron monstera because let's chuck all the Latin names in there together! I don't use the term Split Leaf Philodendron because actually, as often is the case with common names, this is also used as the common name for another Aroid, **Thaumatophyllum bipinnatifidum - you've got to have your teeth in to say that one! - which looks similar. So that's why I tend to avoid that particular common name because it's not particularly helpful in narrowing down what plant you're talking about.

What I can tell you is that the current scientific name for the Swiss Cheese Plant is Monstera deliciosa, so that means it's part of the Monstera genus and the deliciosa bit - that identifies the species and that's the equivalent of our first names as human beings - the deliciosa bit refers to the fruit. If you've listened to my episode on Swiss Cheese Plants, which I think was episode number two - very early days of the show - I talk a little bit about what the fruit of the Swiss Cheese Plants is like. It's called ceriman, or has various other names as well, and if you happen to live in tropical or sub-tropical places, you might be able to buy one. I've never tasted one, but apparently they are quite tasty, hence the deliciosa bit.

So this is why scientific names are useful, because it gives us one single name that can be used around the world for this plant. So, while in some parts of the world the common name may be Split Leaf Philodendron, and in other parts of the world it might be called the Swiss Cheese Plant, we've got this one, unifying scientific name, so that's why they're useful. If you do go back and listen to my Botanical Latin episode, I go into more detail about all of this stuff. I really would love it if growers started labelling their plants more accurately. What can we do to make this happen? Well, I think it's just a question of making a point to sellers whenever you see plants mislabeled and telling them that we're not happy with the quality of labels when we see ones that just don't give us enough information. I think that's the only way that the industry is going to change. I should just say there are lots of great growers out there who label their plants really accurately but, unfortunately, it's not that way across the board.

There are dozens of other species in the genus Monstera, so you might come across Monstera adansonii, Monstera dubia, which is the one that is a shingling vine that grows with leaves flat up to whatever tree or branch it's growing up, and of course the legendary Monstera obliqua, which is so often wrongly put onto plant labels. It's the one that's got very little leaf and a lot of hole, if I can put it that way, and is probably not going to be something you have in your collection unless you are a real specialist in rare plants because it's very hard to get hold of and expensive to buy.

Now, you may have heard Swiss Cheese Plants talked about in terms of Monstera borsigiana and Monstera albo marginata. What about those? Well, that's a whole podcast episode in itself, but basically, borsigiana is a small form of Monstera deliciosaand this tends to have a more vining habit, so you find bigger spaces in between the nodes, that's the point where the leaf joins the stem, and it tends to spread, whereas Monstera deliciosa, the spaces between the nodes are actually pretty small, unless it's grown badly, in which case you might find that it's rather leggy, but generally you're looking for Monstera deliciosa to have these short spaces between the nodes, whereas borsigiana, more of a vining form, bigger spaces between the nodes and slightly smaller leaves. Albo Variegata is a mutation of the borsigiana that brings in variegation to the leaves. Thai Constellation, that is a mutation of Monstera deliciosa, so you do get those short node spaces and the larger leaves. So that's how you can tell the difference. Also, the variegation on Thai Constellation tends to be a bit more creamy than Albo variegata which really is white and green.

It's worth saying that taxonomists and botanists are working on the genus Monstera right now. New species are being discovered all the time and DNA analysis is figuring out new relationships between different species, so this may change. It's worth saying that what I'm saying now may not be valid in one, two, three or five years' time and even some of the taxonomists disagree about different names for plants. Confusing much? Yes, I know!

So the Snake Plant, as I've said before on the show, which was genus Sansevieria, has now been placed in the genus Dracaena,the genus that we associate with the Dragon Trees which look very different from Snake Plants, and this is due to DNA analysis of plants that's been carried out. Some Sansevieria experts though, they disagree. They don't believe that Dracaena should be the new genus and they are sticking to Sansevieria, so it can get confusing! What I would say to Clara is, if you're buying a young plant and it's got heart-shaped leaves maybe with one or two bits of fenestration, it probably is a Monstera deliciosa. It's such a common plant now - it's being produced on such a mass scale. If in doubt, you've most likely got a Monstera deliciosaand not some particularly rare form. That said, occasionally mutations do pop up when you're looking at mass production of plants, so always keep your eye out for some variegation on the leaves that should be plain because you never know what you might spot! Well, I do hope that helps, Clara! As I say, do go back to listen to the Botanical Latin episode and to the Monstera deliciosa episode. I will put links to both of those in the show notes. If you've got a question for On The Ledge, do drop me a line: ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com Shoot me over a picture and as much information as you can about your plant and I will endeavour to help.

Let's get back to my chat with Marianne and I want to talk about the many shortcomings of pots.

Jane: I wanted to talk about plant pots because, ugh, there are so many bad plant pots out there.

Marianne: Truly!

Jane: People who design plant pots don't necessarily know what us plant growers are looking for. What is it that makes a good plant pot for you?

Marianne: Drainage! It's the number one worst offender of decorative plant pots, is no drainage hole. I get it; it's harder, it's messier, you've got to have a tray underneath them, you've got to protect surfaces from the water, but I reached a point in my houseplant journey where something snapped inside me and I just said, "No more! I am not buying pots that do not have a drainage hole anymore." I have a few exceptions. I do have some orchids that I've left in their nursery pot, the plastic pot they come in, and I just have dropped that into a more decorative pot for them to just sit inside. So you still get the benefit of the drainage but it's pretty because I have successfully kept these orchids alive for five years and I'm terrified to change anything! They're very happy. I think that orchids are finicky and if they're happy, you should just leave them be.

Jane: Have you tried that tip that was everywhere on the internet a while ago? Where you made holes in the bottom of terracotta or pottery pots by putting them in a bucket of water and then using a hammer and a screwdriver to make a hole in the bottom while they're under the water?

Marianne: I have not! I have never seen this! It sounds a little dicey.

Jane: It actually works! The only thing is, I would say, is don't go and buy a really expensive pot and then try this out and then blame me when it smashes, but it has worked for me with terracotta pots and other glaze pots! So you get a big container of water, it's got to be able to cover the pot, and then upend it so that the rim is on the base but it's all under water, then you get your smallish hammer and some kind of screwdriver and then you just put the point of the screwdriver on the base of the pot and then just tap, tap, tap and it goes through without smashing the pot. It actually works! I was shocked!

Marianne: I am shocked also! That's actually great to know. I have successfully added drainage holes using an electric drill with a bit that's made for porcelain or crockery, or something like that, but not everyone has power tools or access to them, so that sounds like a great option. Now I feel like I need to try it out!

Jane: Try it out in a pot that you really hate first, to see if it works!

Marianne: I have a potting shed with a graveyard of pots that I have abandoned, so maybe I'll go pull one of those out.

Jane: Also, don't you find that you always need to have loads of spare pots because you just never know!? Like, a pot that you've hated and then you buy a new plant and suddenly that pot that you hated is just the right pot for that plant and it comes into its own and you get it out and you go, "I'm so glad I didn't chuck that away!"? You need space though. That's why my shed is such a mess, it has to be said!

Marianne: It's so hard and I also like to hang on to things because, for HGTV Handmade in particular, that's our DIY channel, we love a painted pot project. It's our audience, time and time again, any DIY, a new technique, a new way to paint it, a new pattern, it's just nice to keep things on hand for projects like that.

Jane: Exactly and this brings us neatly on to the fact that I am terrible at DIY, as I've already said, but I have been repainting my lounge because we got a new sofa and I've painted it exactly the same colour I painted it ten years ago. How boring is that? It's a pale blue colour but it made me think, are there particular colours that are good as a foil for foliage?

Marianne: That's such a great question, especially now with this rise in popularity of houseplants and people really going for that jungle vibe at home, where just plants are the dominant decor item in the home. I like to think of it in a couple of different ways. You can either really lean into the jungle theme. I think a really deep emerald green is so beautiful. It's so lush. You get that tone on tone monochromatic, The plants meld with the paint colour rather than pop against it. I also really like to think of the colour wheel. The opposite of green is red, and I'm not saying you need to paint your room red, but an earthy terracotta, something in that colour family, where the green is really going to be very vibrant against that colour. I also think that you can't discount that classic California light and plant-filled aesthetic, with bright white walls, lots of wood tones and then lots of beautiful plants, where the plants can really take centre stage.

Jane: If in doubt, just paint it white! That's my rule! Although I have discovered there are shades of white, as I discovered when I painted a room white and then tried to cover up some marks with some white paint. It's a totally different shade of white! How is that possible?

Marianne: There are thousands of shades of white and you can never match them completely. You've done such a smart thing. I think there's nothing wrong with painting your room the same colour. It certainly makes it easier, but no matter what colour you paint your room, just get a little extra paint and keep it stashed away because it is so difficult to match it down the road.

Jane: Even if the paint has gone solid, at least you can look at the tin and see what make it was and what the colour name was, so you can go and buy it again. That's the thing, because otherwise you're just trying to match something that you're never going to match. I'm halfway through painting my lounge. I've been doing a little bit every weekend. I had to move my bookcase. Do you have these in the States? It's a very early form of modular furniture called a Globe Wernicke Bookcase, late Victorian / early Edwardian bookcase, but it's modular, so you can lift off each shelf individually? It's so cool! It's the coolest thing. It was really good because I was able to take it down on my own without anyone else helping me because you could just take the books out and then lift it off. They were used in solicitors' offices. Anyway, I just love that piece of furniture. It's so good!

Marianne: I just looked it up. My grandfather was a lawyer, here in the States we call it a lawyer, and he had these in his office.

Jane: One of the things that that brings me on to is my love of the thrift store, aka the charity shop here in the UK.

Marianne: Oh, yes!

Jane: That is another great place for picking up second-hand furniture and stuff, and also pots - just love going around a thrift... I'm so missing it because they're all shut here at the minute because of the lockdown. Do you like that shopping too?

Marianne: I love thrifting! I just find it so rewarding. There's something so satisfying about finding a hidden treasure among, let's be honest, a lot of trash. You have to really be willing to get in there and dig, but I love thrift shopping and I miss it as well. I've not been in over a year, like a lot of us, and that's something I really look forward to and not just thrift stores but yard sales, things like that. I have been able to satisfy a lot of that by looking on things like Facebook Marketplace places, where you can arrange a contactless pickup, but nothing compares to going into a thrift store and just digging in.

Jane: Yes, it's wonderful, isn't it, because you can pick up so many useful things? You can get some interesting pots, you can also get saucers and things for going under plants, things you can repurpose, casserole dishes and things you can repurpose. The thing I was looking at this morning and thinking, "Oh yes! I need to go to that thrift store that does all the furniture!" looking at hat stands that people had repurposed for hanging plants and thinking, "Yes! Now I need a hat stand!" but where'd you get a hat stand other than a thrift store these days?"

Marianne: Truly! That's a great point, but I feel like you could find one.

Jane: Yes, probably, and I just love the idea of getting a bargain and just making something that nobody else can see the good in and just turning it into something really amazing that everyone else has passed by - that you can see the potential and make something cool. I once bought a mirror that my husband absolutely hated, for my garden, and he hated this mirror! I think he finally conceded in the end that maybe it was okay! It's a wonderful treasure trove. I just love the fact that you're bringing something back into use without having to go and buy something new. That's a good feeling too.

Marianne: It is, it is. It's very satisfying and there's also something really fun about knowing that you have something really unique. Everyone can go to their... I don't know if you guys have Target? I was going to say everyone could go to a large department store.

Jane: We don't have Target but we have some similar shops, yes.

Marianne: You can buy something mass-produced and, of course that's also fine, that can be very budget-friendly and you can get just the thing you need when you need it, versus waiting to discover something at a thrift store. I love knowing that I have a unique piece and that's just something that's really important to my overall design aesthetic in my home.

Jane: Yes, because you don't want to go around your friend's house and see that they've just bought exactly the same piece of furniture and copied you.

Marianne: Exactly!

Jane: Well, thank you very much for joining me today, Marianne! It's been great to speak to you and pick up your citrus tips. I'm looking forward to listeners being able to enjoy this interview swap and keep on growing.

Marianne: Yes, Jane, thank you so much! This has been such a delight. I hope everyone feels empowered to go out and try to grow some citrus indoors. Just remember they like sunlight and water and wheel them outside every once in a while. It's how we would treat ourselves, right?

Jane: I certainly need wheeling outside for some sunshine once in a while!

Marianne: Definitely! This was really delightful and I can't wait to return the favour and introduce you to our audience on HGTV Obsessed!

Jane: Awesome! Thank you, Marianne.

Marianne: Thank you!

[music]

Jane: Do check out the show notes for the names of the citrus that we mentioned and for your chance to listen to my appearance on the HGTV Obsessed podcast and also links through to things like what a Globe Wernicke Bookcase is. That's it for this week's show, thanks for joining me. I'll be back in seven days for more house lant heart-to-hearts. Bye!

[music]

Jane: The music you heard in this episode was Roll Jordan Roll by The Joy Drops, Quasi Motion by Kevin MacLeod and Whistle by Benjamin Banger. All tracks are licensed under Creative Commons. Visit janeperrone.com for details.

Subscribe to On The Ledge via Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Player FM, Stitcher, Overcast, RadioPublic and YouTube.

It’s a guest swap! I talk growing indoor citrus and much more with HGTV’s Marianne Canada (just call her the lemon whisperer) and answer a question about Philodendron vs Monstera.

You can hear my interview on the HGTV Obsessed podcast here.

This week’s guest

Marianne Canada is an executive producer and lifestyle expert at HGTV.com and the host of the HGTV Obsessed podcast.

When not watching (and talking about) HGTV, she’s making crafty videos for HGTV Handmade, cooking, gardening or working on renovating her house. A passionate thrifter, Marianne relishes finding treasures and often can be found sharing her thrifting haul online.

How to keep your citrus happy indoors

• Marianne recommends trying Meyer lemons, aka Citrus × meyeri, if you’d like to grow citrus indoors, as well as the calamondin orange, Citrus × microcarpa, and finger limes aka Citrus australasica.

• The citrus tree that my hairdresser discovered on a trip to a spa is the commander pear, Citrus lumia pyriformis.

• One of the key needs of citrus is maximum light: put your citrus pot on a wheeled stand so you can move it to maximise its light exposure: something like this.

• Use specialist citrus potting mix rather than regular houseplant substrate: you can mix in some hardwood mulch, one third mulch to two thirds potting medium.

• Fertiliser needs to be specialist too: look for a specialist citrus feed such as Citrus Focus.

Other notes from the interview

• Never seen a Globe Wernicke bookcase? Here’s a guide.

• Want to try out that under water trick for making holes in the bottom of pots? Check this video out.

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QUESTION OF THE WEEK

Clara, like so many people, got into houseplants during the course of the pandemic. She wants to buy a swiss cheese plant, but is confused by the labels: is it Monstera deliciosa, Philodendron ‘monstera deliciosa’, philodendron monstera, split leaf philodendron, or something else? She discovered that monsteras and philodendrons are two separate genera - so, Clara wants to know, how can there be such a thing as a philodendron monstera?

Good question Clara! There’s a lot to unpack here. First off - Monstera and Philodendron are different genera, although they both belong to the Araceae family, aka the aroids, so they are related.

A genus is the plant equivalent of a surname, the family to which the plant belongs. The current botanical Latin (aka scientific) name for the species commonly known as swiss cheese plant is Monstera deliciosa. That means it’s a member of the Monstera genus, while the deliciosa bit identifies the species - the equivalent of a human first name.

The naming gets confusing because plant sellers are not very good at accurately labelling their plants. So they mix up Philodendron and Monstera, mix common names and scientific names and cause a huge mess. The common name split leaf philodendron is sometimes used for Monstera deliciosa, for instance. This is why scientific names are so useful, because they are the same across the world. I’d love it if growers started labelling plants more accurately, but that’s only going to happen if we as consumers keep complaining about poor quality labels when we see them.

That said, scientific names do change - the snake plant, which was genus Sansevieria, is now in the genus Dracaena, for instance, due to findings from DNA analysis of plants. Some Sansevieria experts disagree and are sticking to using the name Sansevieria, however.

For more on scientific names and how they work, do check out my episode devoted to this topic. You can hear my Monstera episode here.

Want to ask me a question? Email ontheledgepodcast@gmail.com. The more information you can include, the better - pictures of your plant, details of your location and how long you have had the plant are always useful to help solve your issue!

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CREDITS

This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops, Quasi Motion by Kevin MacleodWhistle by BenJamin Banger (@benjaminbanger on Insta; website benjaminbanger.com).