Episode 238: Dendrobium orchids and more with Kevin Wigley

Kevin Wigley with his orchid collection. Photograph: Jane Perrone.

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TRANSCRIPT

Jane Perrone 00:05

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Jane Perrone 01:28

Hello, and welcome to On The Ledge, the podcast about houseplants and don't worry, you can still listen even if you have no window ledges in your home. Yes, this is the houseplant podcast started way back in 2017, bringing you house planting chat and info pretty much every week since then. And in this week's show, I visit Sutton Coldfield, which is on the outskirts of Birmingham to chat to orchid grower Kevin Wigley about some of the plants in his collection.

Jane Perrone 02:15

It has occurred to me that I have not done enough episodes on orchids in this podcast over the last five and a half years. So that's something I'm going to try to put right over a couple of episodes. And that's because this is an incredible family of plants, many of which make fascinating specimens to grow indoors or in a greenhouse. So join me as I chat to Kevin Wigley about his collection and some of his favourite plants.

Jane Perrone 02:49

Kevin, I am joining you in your orchid room. It's busy in here.

Kevin Wigley 02:55

That's one word for it, yes!

Jane Perrone 02:57

Where did this all start Kevin, how did you get to having a whole roomful of orchids?

Kevin Wigley 03:03

Oh, wow. I've probably been growing orchids since I was 15. And I'm 40-frozen-to-death now. So yes, that's quite a lot of years. There's been more or less plants in the collection over the years. But, we're at probably maximum saturation levels now.

Jane Perrone 03:28

Well unless you devote the whole of your house into an orchid room... Y

Kevin Wigley 03:31

Yes, well I'm trying.

Jane Perrone 03:33

You are, I can see that. You know, there's plants creeping into most areas here. It's a fantastic collection. And you've got some of the Top of the Pops of the orchid world here. What are some of your favourites that you can start me off with?

Kevin Wigley 03:50

Usually when someone asks me what my favourite is, I'll say whatever's in flower.

Jane Perrone 03:55

Good answer.

Kevin Wigley 03:56

As you can see, they there isn't a great deal in flower at the moment. But I've got a great deal of time for this Prosthechea cochleata, which I've had for quite a few years now. And is tattooed upon my body.

Jane Perrone 04:11 Yeah, literally you have a tatto of this. You're not kidding with that you actually have recently got a tattoo which I'm looking at on your arm. It's gorgeous. And will forever be - I mean, I guess you know things go downhill with that plant, least you've got it on your arm forevermore now.

Kevin Wigley 04:27

Yes, this is true. I've had it for quite a few years now. It's been divided a few times and pieces sold off back when I could do such things. But it's always been a favourite. I think it always will be. It's just one of the archetypal species that people like to have in their collection.

Jane Perrone 04:49

The full name ending in Octopuss?

Kevin Wigley 04:53

Its terminal name is 'Octopussy', yes.

Jane Perrone 04:55

And we can see why with these amazing - I'm probably going to get the botanical name wrong - are they petals or sepals. What do we call those?

Jane Perrone 05:02

Well, there are three sepals. And there are three petals. So it's basically a six petal flower, with one petal then modified to produce what we call the labellum, or the lip, which in this particular case, sits at the top of the flower. In many other orchids, the flower will twist through 180 degrees in a process called supreination.

Jane Perrone 05:31

That's my new word of the day.

Kevin Wigley 05:32

So that the labellum sits facing downwards like a landing platform, so that insects can crawl into the flower and affect pollination. But in the particular case, the lip sits uppermost. What it's trying to attrac? I don't know, UFOs possibly.

Jane Perrone 05:49

It's got this amazing structure where it does look a bit like an octopus, there is something in that.

Kevin Wigley 05:55

Yes. The regular form of the species has shorter petals. And they sort of more - still kind of like an octopus just a smaller one.

Jane Perrone 06:07

And you chose this one for your tattoo, did the tattoo artist sort of look at you sideways and go? Really, Kevin, are you sure? I suppose they've seen it all in terms of what people want to have put on their bodies?

Kevin Wigley 06:20

Part of it was, as you know, I've grown orchids for quite a long time. I've always wanted to get some tattoos. And I thought, Well, why don't I get tattoos of plants that I've grown, photos that I've taken, then I know that no one else has got it. I don't really want a picture of my granny on this somewhere or some meaningless words off a Chinese menu. So I thought well, go for it. You only live once.

Jane Perrone 06:50

Now I'm interested in the structure of these orchids which is common to quite a few of the orchids I can see in here where you've got this kind of swollen base, and then the leaves - can you explain that to me? Is that is that classed as a swollen stem? And why is it swollen like that? Do we know?

Kevin Wigley 07:12

It's called a pseudo bulb. And its purpose is simply to store moisture nutrients to get the plant through what would be a dry season in its natural habitat. The actual new growth has come from a rhizome at the base, and they're produced sequentially. And then yes, the leaves are produced either from the top or occasionally from side nodes in the case of some of the other species. So you can say the leafs are all the way down the pseudobulb. They're part of the attraction, I suppose, because they are funny looking plants.

Jane Perrone 08:04

I suppose it's useful as an epiphyte, to have that storage there for when conditions aren't really right.

Kevin Wigley 08:10

Because obviously in nature, this would be clinging to a tree. And the water is there, it's deluged. And then it's gone. And the plant might have to wait days, weeks for more water and you do see as the orchids dry down, the pseudobulbs, shrink and shrivel to keep to keep the plant going. It's probably better not to let them shrivel too much. Because it's ideal to try and get bigger and bigger ones because that fuels more flowers. And more and more more lead growth as well. Which leads then to double the flowers. I'm looking to see if I can find one that's done it but of course.

Jane Perrone 08:53

No, they are hiding away.

Kevin Wigley 08:54

They refuse to cooperate! But if you see this one here rom the base that could easily send out another shoot from there and then you've got two lead growths and that's actually how you then divide them.

Jane Perrone 09:08

Now obviously, you've got this situation of these roots, some of which are in the pot, some of which are questing out.

Kevin Wigley 09:13

All over the place, yeah.

Jane Perrone 09:15

Is it like found offices where you're kind of using those as a gauge to the health of the plant?

Kevin Wigley 09:21

To an extent? Yes, it's important to realise that there are really no permanent parts on an orchid and although they look as if they're sitting there doing nothing, the important part is the leading growth, the leading pseudobulb, and the most important roots are the ones that come from that. So the further back you go on the plant gradually the foliage is shed. This is a poor example because it's still foliated - but you can see on this Cattleya for example, the old foliage is shed, gradually the old roots will will will die away as almost all the energy is pushed forwards into the leading parts of the plants.

Jane Perrone 10:05

So you will need to keep those bare Psuedo bulbs there, though, because presumably they are still serving a function? I mean, at some point, could you take that big plant out of the pot and chop it up?

Kevin Wigley 10:19

Yes, as long as they're green, they have some benefits for plants, even if they're just photosynthesizing. Yeah. But yeah, so you can actually use back bulbs in a lot of species and higher boots to propagate from. And what you can do is, rather than taking the plant out and disturbing it, perhaps unnecessarily, some don't like it - you can take a pair of sterilised secateurs, and you can make a cut in the rhizome at the base of the plant. And then it will produce a new growth from further back. And then once that's established and going on its own, you can take the plant out and divide it. So it's propagating without having to do anything.

Jane Perrone 11:02

Yeah, that sounds like my kind of propagating!

Kevin Wigley 11:05

It's much less work!

Jane Perrone 11:07

I'm drawn to the beautiful chocolate coloured and indeed, chocolate scented - just having a sniff here. I wish this was a smelly podcast, but you're going to have to bear with me. It's kind of chocolate vanilla. It smells a bit like ...

Kevin Wigley 11:20

It's a whie chocolate vanilla smell isn't it.

Jane Perrone 11:23

I was going to say, like Caramac! Probably international listeners aren't going to know what I'm talking about. Tell me about what orchid is this?

Kevin Wigley 11:33 That's an Oncidium It's called Oncidium 'Cherry Baby'. It may well have a clonal name, but it's long lost to the mists of time. It's a very popular plant. Quite rightly. It's vigorous. It flowers regularly. It has a glorious scent. absolutely glorious scent. Yeah, I have absolutely no complaints.

Jane Perrone 11:56

Yeah, it's really, really lovely. And above it we've got another flower coming down, which is completely different. Tell me about that one.

Kevin Wigley 12:03

Well, that is called Coelogyne ‘Bird In Flight’ - it's a primary hybrid between two species. One of which produces the largest flowers in the genus. Which unfortunately, you've missed, because it's just gone over. It's between blooms as we like to say.

Jane Perrone 12:06

So Coelogyne. I'm gonna be brutally honest. I know nothing about Coelogyne.

Kevin Wigley 12:30

They're a bit niche.

Jane Perrone 12:32

Well, I mean, my listeners love niche. So is this another epiphyte?

Kevin Wigley 12:37

They are.

Jane Perrone 12:38

And I mean, it's got that pseudo bulb again, yeah, these almost look a bit Aspidistra-ish to me.

Kevin Wigley 12:44

They do, especially some of the more upright species. Like we've got Coelogyne asperata at the back there, which produces really very big growth up to a metre tall. But yes, that does look like a massive Aspidistra.

Kevin Wigley 12:56

Yes!

Kevin Wigley 12:59

Which has its attractions. They have the benefit of being almost impossible to overwater, in my experience, okay, which is why I tend not to grow them hanging in baskets, unless they're in flower, because the flowers hang down. I find them an absolute pleasure to grow, they're no trouble. They don't pick up pests or diseases as a rule, unless you do something really heinous to them. And you're rewarded with these fantastic flowers.

Jane Perrone 13:32

Yes, the flower is very delicate. It's kind of - well this one's a sort of a two tone chocolate and cream, I would say - has this got a nice scent? I'm not tall enough to be able to smell that one.

Kevin Wigley 13:43

It does? You might only get the 'Sharry Baby' because of where it is.

Jane Perrone 13:46

Yeah, that's true. Oh, no, that's sort of a similar, slightly more vanilla-y lemony to my nose.

Kevin Wigley 13:55

I mean, you're quite lucky there, because some Coelogyne can be, let's say not so pleasant in terms of scent. In fact, Coelogyne speciosa, which is out of bloom at the moment...

Jane Perrone 14:09

Well, that's a great specimen, though. Look at that! It's really packed into that pot.

Kevin Wigley 14:13

Yeah, it wants repotting really.

Jane Perrone 14:14

Has it reached the stage where you're thinking? Yeah, I need to that?

Kevin Wigley 14:18

Yeah. What I tend to do is try to ignore what the roots are doing, because it's better to wait for the growths to get to the edge of the pot and then think about repotting. Not that they're resent being disturbed, they don't, you can tear them to pieces and all the all the back bulbs will grow as well. But this is a very variable species. So I've got five or six different varieties of it. And they vary in scent, some of them are absolutely lovely. Some of them are really, sort of old underpants - don't stick your nose in that one!

Jane Perrone 15:01

Well maybe some people are attracted to the smell of old underpants but who knows?!

Kevin Wigley 15:10

They come in a variety of colours as you can see, over here we've got white, which is another primary but using Coelogyne mooreana as a parent - again it has a nice scent and is a reliable bloomer. It's on the large side. But it is actually quite well behaved. I would recommend Coelogyne as something to grow.

Kevin Wigley 15:10

Well who knows, the mind boggles.

Jane Perrone 15:10

The mind does boggle.

Jane Perrone 15:35

Are they hard to get hold of, are there not so many growers around?

Kevin Wigley 15:40

Well there aren't that many orchid nurseries in Britain now. The one down in Devon that's left, am I allowed to name them? Burnham Nurseries down in Devon have quite a collection Coelogyne themselves, which is where a lot of my plants came from. So no, they're not too difficult to get hold off. Yeah, they are highly recommended.

Jane Perrone 16:00

I mean, I guess it's that difference between the ones - everyone sees the Phalaenopsis is not something that's limited to the houseplant and orchid world, it's just a plant that everybody has. They've broken through. And I suppose maybe, to some extent, some of the dendrobiums have gone the same way. But things like Coelogyne really, if somebody's got one of these in their house, you're gonna suspect that they are a little bit more serious about their plants. I'm wanting to talk about dendrobiums though, because I think they are breaking through to the non houseplant community but I think a lot of people get a bit confused about how to grow them. I have had a couple of these. And I had one that I was looking after for somebody for about six months. And I was absolutely terrified, because it was their mum's plant and I was thinking "Oh god, I'm gonna kill this Dendrobium." But I think a lot of people get confused by these stems and what to do with them once they've lost their leaves. Now after our pseudobulbs chat, I'm thinking the answer is...

Kevin Wigley 17:03

Ah, you can see what they are now!

Jane Perrone 17:04

Whatever you do, don't chop them down.

Kevin Wigley 17:07

No, no, if it's green, leave it. Yes, very simple rule actually. And it applies to most orchids - if it's green, leave it.

Jane Perrone 17:16

So is that classed as a pseudobulb or is that just classed as the stem?

Kevin Wigley 17:19

It is a pseudobulb. They're usually referred to as canes on Dendrobiums, because they have a bamboo kind of look to them when they're out of leaf. If I reach one down. This is I believe Dendrobium cassiope. You can see that basically, the structure of the plant is really the same as we were talking about for the Prosthechea earlier. It has its leaves in a different orientation and it produces its flowers from a slightly different place. But basically there is a rhizome which here is slightly underneath the growing medium and new canes are produced sequentially from the growing point. There's a word for it, which I've forgotten.

Jane Perrone 18:11

Okay. Welcome to my world.

Kevin Wigley 18:14

Happens to the best of us

Jane Perrone 18:17

Dendrobiums I think Well, I think all plants...

Kevin Wigley 18:19

Sympodial, that's the word I'm trying to say.

Jane Perrone 18:22

That's a great word too.

Kevin Wigley 18:23

But this is the difference between something like a Dendrobium and an orchid like a Phalaenopsis which is monopodial, and it grows a leaf at a time from a single growing point, it doesn't produce branches, it doesn't have the rhizome. Which is why you have to be a bit more careful about not rotting out centre of them because you feel them. But we're something like this, the this Dendrobium their canes remain alive, often for years, sometimes, not for years. The foliage is eventually shed, it might be after only one season, it might be up to two or three, they might be completely evergreen. But the principle is the same, really.

Jane Perrone 19:04

I think the trouble is that I mean, we have a tendency to neat freakery. I mean, I've got a friend.

Kevin Wigley 19:09

Don't grow orchids if you want to be a neat dreak!

Jane Perrone 19:12

I mean, I've got a friend. I'm not joking. I'm just going to one of these federal offices demonstrate. So my friend said to me, oh, yeah, I've got this orchid Jane, and I'm thinking of cutting these bits off, and I'm going "what those bits:? and she was, she was pointing at the leaves at this point, not the flower stem, the actual leaves. And I said, well, if you cut those off, you're not gonna have a plant anymore.

Kevin Wigley 19:38

They're its food factory, you can't them off!

Jane Perrone 19:41

But I think that's an interesting point, because we kind of assume that people understand things but actually,

Kevin Wigley 19:47

We do take a lot for granted.

Jane Perrone 19:48

Yeah, I mean, my orchid knowledge is not that great, I have to say, but it's really interesting to have that information. Don't cut it off! What About the roots? I mean, again, if roots are going mad...

Kelly Westlake 20:02

It's the same - if the roots are alive, leave them alone. Yeah. The one thing I will say about wandering roots is it can sometimes be a sign that all is not well, right beneath the surface in the pot. Not always, some will and the best of times, right. But I have seen pictures on Instagram and on Twitter, where there's obviously root issues going on underneath, and that applies to all orccids.

Jane Perrone 20:30

Right? They're trying to escape?

Kevin Wigley 20:32

It kind of is that - they're looking they're looking for somewhere more amenable to them to go and to attach to yeah.

Jane Perrone 20:42

If you've got a Dendrobium that you've bought, and it's flowered, this is this is the eternal orchid question. Whenever I do a houseplant talk. I'm always get afraid when people ask me about orchids, because as I've said many times, I don't really know that I'm, you know, compared to this level of knowledge I have of other plants is not that great. But I always get that question about how do I re-flower my Dendrobium?

Kevin Wigley 21:04

That does vary.

Jane Perrone 21:05

Yeah, the answer really is kind of well, it depends. I can't again, going back to the point about I can't see your house - with dendrobiums specifically, I guess number one, don't cut off those canes. What else do we need to know?

Kevin Wigley 21:20

Well, Dendrobium is quite a big genus comprising quite a lot of quite very plants. Now. This one, then I've reached down for a step have a little look at is what's called a nobile type Dendrobium, which are the ones that you usually say around Christmas time or in the early spring, usually white flowers all the way up to canes, absolutely beautiful. Yeah. They are strictly seasonal growers. They need a cool winter. I try not to give people minimum temperatures because if you say 10 degrees in winter, that's, you know, it's a minimum not a target.

Jane Perrone 22:09

Very good point. I like that phrase, I am going to use that!

Kevin Wigley 22:14

But it's true. They don't actually like being kept that cold. But what it does is sends it into a sort of, I'm gonna say semi dormancy. And then they bloom in the spring when conditions start to warm up again. So you have to try to replicate that. Having said that, there has been a lot of breeding done with now built out dendrobiums now, and quite a few because I grow on the warm side really for that. But most of the plants I've got in here, if that kind of quite easygoing, and they are becoming more temperature tolerant, which means if you've got a room that is on the warm side, provided you give them enough light in the winter. - another important point - they'll bloom regardless of temperature. There's a good example of that would be this one, you'll pay her which is called 'Green Surprise'. Okay. And it was a surprise when it flowers. Because the flowers are really green.

Jane Perrone 23:12

The clue's in the name! Oh wow!

Kevin Wigley 23:13

It's an unusual colour on that on that type of orchid. But it blooms absolutely spectacularly. So nobile tupe Dendrobium I grow it warm, and it flowers. Yeah. So if in doubt, it's always worth a try. Yeah, but what you can also do is just put it in a cooler room for a few weeks over the winter and that'll do the job. Now there are other kinds of Dendrobium. Okay, which grow warmer. Here's a nice one. Now. This one comes from Papua New Guinea or its parents do. It hasn't been given a clonal name, unfortunately. So it's just got the cross polysema x alexandrae, but look at that for a flower.

Jane Perrone 23:55

Oh, that's rather special isn't it, wow? If only I had my classes on I could actually see it!

Kevin Wigley 24:02

Shall I put it over here?

Jane Perrone 24:03

Wwere talking earlier about my failing eyesight! But that is very, very fancy law sort of pale lime green chocolate cream. Very, very nice.

Kevin Wigley 24:16

Yeah. This type of Dendrobium comes in quite a variety of colours, whites being the speciality they're quite often white with purple spots. They are absolutely stunning. I find them very easy. Much easier actually than the nobile types because they don't need that rest. They're quite happy being kept warm and bright and evenly moist all year round.

Jane Perrone 24:40

If I sniff this and we're gonna get anything out of it?

Kevin Wigley 24:45

It's not horrible.

Jane Perrone 24:48

Oh, oh, if only I was if my nose was better I could identify that smell.

Kevin Wigley 24:53

It's not strong, but it's quite pleasant.

Jane Perrone 24:56

Yeah, I can't think what that reminds me of.

Kevin Wigley 25:01

It's one of the very subjective isn't it the sense of smell?

Jane Perrone 25:06

You're right. It is pleasant not strong, but, but very pleasant.

Kevin Wigley 25:09

They're not so easy to get hold of, and I can't really understand what the issue with them is.

Jane Perrone 25:13

Is it because they are bigger, more unwieldy?

Kevin Wigley 25:17

I don't think they really are.

Jane Perrone 25:19

It doesn't look that...

Kevin Wigley 25:20

Yeah, I mean, that's an adult flowering size plant. The other good thing about this type is that these old canes will continue to bloom for years on end.

Jane Perrone 25:29

Even if they lack leaves?

Kevin Wigley 25:30

Yes, as long as they're alive, there was a reasonable chance that they'll still flower.

Jane Perrone 25:36

That's really interesting.

Kevin Wigley 25:37

So yeah. Now the type of danger I'll be in that you usually see in garden centres, that produces, sprays of usually purple or sometimes white flowers from the tips of the canes - I don't grow them. There's good reason for that. They're what we call hard cane dendrobiums. They've got very, very firm usually wrinkled canes - they shouldn't be wrinkled, but they usually are - very stiff, leathery leaves, usually at the top. They look, they look a bit like this. This isn't one, but they've got that sort of look to them. I find them difficult. They've got a bit of a reputation for being divas.

Jane Perrone 26:16

So the funny thing is why are they the ones that have become popular for sale ?

Kevin Wigley 26:21

I can only think it's for the beautiful flowers.

Jane Perrone 26:24

Yes. Yeah.

Kevin Wigley 26:26

And they are, and they should, there is no reason for them to be difficult. But they do need high temperatures, high light, they've really you're looking for the foliage to be turned in slightly purple, for them to be getting the sort of levels of light that they want. I think what is actually happening, which is add into the reputation is - and this applies to a lot of orchids - is that the damage is done when you buy the plants. And they they're they're grown very fast on the continent in usually a coir kind of material that when you get them home really doesn't suit the plants - the coir breaks down far too fast and it chokes the roots. But you'll usually find that by the time you bought it from the garden centre, the plant's already got no roots. And they're very good at masking that for a long time. And then it takes a long time to bring them back.

Jane Perrone 27:25

I see. I feel less bad now.

Kevin Wigley 27:28

Part of the reason that there's none here is because it takes so long to bring them back. And I've given up wanting to throw good money after bad - I'd rather wait and buy a decent plant to start with. And that's the case with a lot of orchids. But of course, it's not really in the continental nurseries' interests for you to grow the plant on. That's not what their M.O. is, they want you to buy a new one.

Jane Perrone 27:56

And that's why one should be buying really from specialists because they...

Kevin Wigley 28:01

And please do, they are dwindling at a rate of knots.

Jane Perrone 28:05

Now talking of flowers, we have to address this guy.

Kevin Wigley 28:09

Oh the Psychopsis?

Jane Perrone 28:10

It looks like something. I mean, it looks like a kind of a praying mantis type thing going on here. This flower has got some chutzpah.

Kevin Wigley 28:17

A candidate for a tattoo actually.

Jane Perrone 28:19

Yeah. A tattoo of that would be amazing. You'd have to have it on your thigh or something because it's quite ex[ansive. Tell me about this one. It's orange and yellow.

Kevin Wigley 28:29

These are fantastic.

Jane Perrone 28:31

I can't get over that.

Kevin Wigley 28:32

Its name is Psychopsis mariposa 'Green Valley', they're related to the Oncidiums, so the chocolate scented ones that you had sniff at - you keep having a sniff at - save me some!

Jane Perrone 28:48

It's like therapy.

Kevin Wigley 28:49

It's gorgeous. Isn't it? It will fill the room this afternoon.

Jane Perrone 28:52

Yeah, I'm sure.

Jane Perrone 28:54

Yes, but that the Psychopsis produce this long, thin stem that can be quite tall. This is a short one. And then they bloom sequentially, one at a time, maybe in a sequence of four or five and then a few months off, and it will keep blooming from the stem for years. So as the plants mature, they produce more flowering stems and you get - they are fantastic. These also have a reputation for being difficult. But it's only because they don't like stale potting medium, which is why I grow them in a basket like this. It's a plastic bog standard basket with a hook on the top. But what I've also done is I've stood a net pot in the bottom to aid the drainage actually, I don't think it needs to having watched the plants and then they're they're slow but they just grow. This is a fresh flower spike that it's produced for me because it feels like it - there seems no rhyme, nor reason to when. It's magnificen.

Jane Perrone 30:04

It's a carnival outfit or something? Notting Hill Carnival.

Kevin Wigley 30:08

Individual flowers are shortlived, but there'll be four or five. Wonderful. And if you do have an accident, damage the spike, actually they can regrow from the nodes much like a Phalaenopsis would.

Jane Perrone 30:22

I see. I see I coming on to the old Phalaenopsis would. I mean,

Kevin Wigley 30:26

It had to happen didn't it?

Jane Perrone 30:29

We've got to mention them because everyoe grow them.

Kevin Wigley 30:32

They're a wonderful entry into the world of orchids.

Jane Perrone 30:37

Do you think there's anything anywhere left to go with a breeding of Phalaenopsis or any sort of like unicorn Phalaenopsis somebody's still trying to create?

Kevin Wigley 30:45

Oh, you mean like the fabled blue?

Jane Perrone 30:48

Yeah, there you go. Is there going to be a blue Phalaenopsis anytime?

Kevin Wigley 30:51

I have seen that there has been some genetic modification going on.

Kevin Wigley 30:58

You don't have to whisper that, it's OK.

Kevin Wigley 31:08

Orchids really aren't very good at blue. It's genetic. But it has produced a very nice sort of violet mauve coloured flower, which I find very attractive. Whether it will come onto the market I don't know. We'll have to wait and see. Scent is another thing to look out for in Phalaenopsis. Here's one.

Kevin Wigley 31:33

It's a bit of a scratty plant at the moment. But yes, it does. It does have a scent.

Jane Perrone 31:39

Okay, I'm going to sniff this. Oh, yeah, that's sort of cinnamon. I'm getting cinnamon.

Kevin Wigley 31:44

Sort of spicy.

Jane Perrone 31:45

Yes. Spicy.

Jane Perrone 31:48

I don't know what colour I'd describe that as, erm...

Kevin Wigley 31:48

Sweet spice.

Kevin Wigley 31:52

Pink! A spade's a spade to me. Pink!

Jane Perrone 31:57

The poet in me wants to tell you that it's magenta and citrus. But you're right, it is pink. Dark pink.

Kevin Wigley 32:04

Bordering on purple, isn't it? Anything with with Phalaenopsis violacea in its background will typically produce a scent violacea or bellina - either or - they're sort of interchangeable but not some days don't get me started on taxonomy.

Jane Perrone 32:23

I am sure the orchid world is particularly juicy when it comes to taxonomy.

Kevin Wigley 32:29

Oh my word, it's so hard to keep up! The Cattleyas have been messed with, Oncidiums are being messed with the Coelogynes are being messed with. There's probably not one label in here that's right.

Jane Perrone 32:42

Well, as long as you know what you're dealing with then, that's the main thing.

Kevin Wigley 32:45

Well the plants themselves don't change, only the label.

Jane Perrone 32:49

Indeed no.

Jane Perrone 32:50

Unusual beauty.

Jane Perrone 32:51

What is that one? It's a very nice plant.

Kevin Wigley 32:52

A Bulbophyllum.

Jane Perrone 32:57

Bulbophyllum. This looks like - I don't know - it looks like a sort of an orchid flower party and everyone's invited. It reminds me of a sort of a gang of lanky teenagers.

Kevin Wigley 33:13

It is unscented, and that for Bulbophyllum is generally a blessing.

Jane Perrone 33:16

Okay, do they go for the sort of rotting flesh approach?

Kevin Wigley 33:20

Oh, yes.Well not just rotting flesh. There's a variety of quite foul odours that emanate from their vicinity on a regular basis.

Jane Perrone 33:28

They must be attracting something that just likes to land on something rank.

Kevin Wigley 33:33

This one however is blessedly without scent and it's only it's only a miniature it's in - what that's - asix centimetre pot.

Jane Perrone 33:41

And will that stay small like that?

Kevin Wigley 33:42

It is yes, it's a miniature.

Jane Perrone 33:44

And that's handy, I guess, for anyone.

Kevin Wigley 33:45

It will grow but it doesn't sort of get gargantuan like some do.

Jane Perrone 33:48

That's the joy I guess of this particular family in that you know, very there's so much variability. I mean, those some of those ones at the back there. I can't think what what genus they were, but they're enormous!

Kevin Wigley 33:58

The Coelogynes.

Jane Perrone 33:59

And then you've got obviously these really tiny ones. So there really is something for everybody. Is there anything else you wanted to show me? That might is noteworthy, or particularly weird?

Kevin Wigley 34:15

Think you've seen everything that's in bloom. I think it might be worth addressing the dreaded pests and diseases. Yeah. They never got discussed - the dirty word.

Jane Perrone 34:25

No, that's true. I mean, you know, you, you we all have them, let's be honest. They're everywhere. And they're part of the ecosystem.

Kevin Wigley 34:33

They're a fact of life.

Jane Perrone 34:34

Do you have any words of wisdom for those of us dealing with pests?

Kevin Wigley 34:38

All I can say is, every orchid grower I know is constantly battling with pests and diseases. If they tell you they're not they are lying to you. It just does not happen. The biggest offenders here you can see scale insects on that scale now I had these analysed by a technician

Jane Perrone 35:04

I'm loving this - scale analysis. And what did they say?

Kevin Wigley 35:08

Well, they're called boisduval scale, which is...

Jane Perrone 35:14

That sounds so fancy, you don't have to say "I have pests" you can say " I have boisduval scale".

Kevin Wigley 35:17

But it just means that nothing works! However, I have now renounced the chemicals realistically, because most of the books now are getting resistant to them. The chemicals are getting banned at a rate of knots. So what I've taken to doing is cleaning them with either very soapy water or with meths and I use an old toothbrush and scrub them. Well, there's no coming back from that.

Jane Perrone 35:50

And I suppose the the good thing about orchids is that their leaves are quite on the whole, quite leathery and tough.

Kevin Wigley 35:57

Yeah, it's a double edged sword. Because what it also means is that systemic chemicals tend not to work very well on orchids, because they've got a lot - or a lot of them - have got very thick cuticles. And because they have this Crassulacean Acid Metabolism that they like to talk about, their metabolism isn't very quick. So if you put a systemic insecticide on them, it takes the chemical so long to get around the plant that it will have denatured by the time it's got to where it's needed.

Kevin Wigley 36:32

That's a really interesting point that I've never thought of.

Jane Perrone 36:35

I assume it will be the same for cacti and succulents.

Kevin Wigley 36:37

See now also anyone playing the Crassulacean Acid Metabolism drinking game can now take a drink because we've tried to mention it every episode! But that's a really good point. I mean, and as you say, sort of the physical removal is probably the way to go. When you're doing the meths. What's your dilution on that?

Kevin Wigley 36:57

Oh, it's neat. No, no, no. Don't mess about.

Jane Perrone 37:01

And then you're presumably washing it off are you?

Kevin Wigley 37:04

Well there's no need - it will evaporate.

Jane Perrone 37:06

Oh, yeah, of course. Okay.

Kevin Wigley 37:08

So I've just got it in a little - this used to have body spray in it - not mine.

Kevin Wigley 37:16

And yeah, I find that it works very well - I just squirt it on willy nilly.

Jane Perrone 37:16

Scent of meth s - a desirable perfume!

Jane Perrone 37:30

You don't find that causes any damage?

Kevin Wigley 37:31

It doesn't seem to. It doesn't seem to upset the plants at all. What you will often find is that the leaves will go - and I'm looking for one now of course can't see one - but the leaves will go spotty, especially as if you've had them in the new growths and then they you kill the bugs. Great. The leaves grow out and of course, they're already damaged. And you'll also find that if where there's been pests, and there's tiny little puncture marks on your leaves and that lets in fungal disease or all sorts of bacterial diseases. That's what's happened over there with that spotty Catasetum. I don't worry about that too much, because it's deciduous anyway, they'll all be gone by Christmas. Because this is also a spider mite magnet. Such joy. You think Marantas are bad!

Jane Perrone 38:30

What is this? What species is that is this?

Kevin Wigley 38:32

Well, it's a hybrid, but this is one of the - let's see, Cycnodes Taiwan Gold x Cycnodes warscewiczii.

Jane Perrone 38:42

Also known as a spider mite magnet.

Kevin Wigley 38:45

Also known as Cycnodes Super Swan.

Jane Perrone 38:47

Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah,

Kevin Wigley 38:50

Oh look a bug! Yeah, pests and diseases. They're a fact of life. Scale, mealies

Jane Perrone 38:56

Yeah, I think people do get terribly het up about them don't they, but it does add to your workload, I suppose. That's the thing. When you do find pests, it does make extra work.

Kevin Wigley 39:04

When you've got this level of plants. Going through them one by one takes a lot of time and sometimes I am just not in the mood for it.

Jane Perrone 39:15

Of course. I can totally sympathise with that. But hopefully,

Kevin Wigley 39:18

They usually come back well from it.

Jane Perrone 39:20

Yeah, yeah, they can recover. And they've got those pseudobulbs keep them going.

Kevin Wigley 39:26

They are tough. The most important thing with growing orchids is look after the roots - it's always the roots - doesn't matter what leaves are doing look after the roots.

Jane Perrone 39:34

And when you're watering, do you have any special concoction or is it just tap water or what's your what's your water?

Kevin Wigley 39:39

Well, we're very lucky here. Our water comes from Wales. It's not bore hole water or anything like right like that. It isn't really messed about with the soft water, the orchids seems like it, they don't complain.

Jane Perrone 39:53

That's great. Oh for soft water. My water is hard as hell.

Kevin Wigley 39:59

I think for most orchids it's not going to damage your plants. It's more likely to just leave mucky marks on your leaves than anything else. Some are more evangelical about it than others. My own personal take is that rainwater is great, but all sorts of God knows what will come in with it.

Jane Perrone 40:18

True.

Kevin Wigley 40:20

It's swings and roundabouts. Yeah, we've got good water. So I use it. I water them with the house pipe. If I'm feeling very lazy, or if I'm going away, I'll bring the house pipe in here and give them a good dosuing, they don't complain - you can't overwater Phalaenopsis or Bulbophyllyms. And it works fine. So yes, it is what it is.

Jane Perrone 40:48

Well, Kevin has been a delight to come and look at your orchids and have a sniff of some of the choice flowers.

Kevin Wigley 40:58

I must like you because I haven't wheeled out any stinkers for you.

Jane Perrone 41:00

Well there you go, I'm very impressed. I mean, this is when not having a very good sense of smell is probably a bonus. I waiting for a Stapelia to flower at home, expecting that to be a bit of a show. But it's a beautiful collection. And let's hope that we can encourage more growers to try things like Coelogynes and have a world in the world of orchids. Because it's fabulously fascinating. So thank you very much.

Kevin Wigley 41:25

You're very welcome.

Jane Perrone 41:41

Thanks so much to Kevin, for joining me this week. And do check out the show notes for images of some of the plants we talk about and more info. There will be more orchid content coming in upcoming episodes. I just did another interview with a grower today, so the flowering bonanza continues. Well, that's all for this week's episode. So join me next Friday. For more tip top houseplant content. Have a great week. Bye

Jane Perrone 42:50

The music you heard in this episode was Roll Jordan Roll by The Joy Drops and Time to Move and Motivate by The Insider. The ad music was Dill Pickles by the Heftone Banjo Orchestra. All Tracks are licenced under Creative Commons. Visit the show notes for details.PT

I visit orchid grower Kevin Wigley to find out more about this fascinating family, including Dendrobiums, Coelogyne and Psychopsis.

Check out the notes below as you listen…

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Prosthechea cochleata 'Octopussy'. Photograph: Kevin Wigley.

• The first orchid we discuss is Prosthechea cochleata 'Octopussy' (pictured left - click the image to enlarge).

• Resupination is where a flower or leaf turns through 180 degrees as it grows. The flowers of ‘Octopussy’ do not do this, so that the labellum or lip ( a modified petal) sits uppermost, at the top of the flower.

• Prosthechea is one of several orchid genera that have pseudobulbs: others include the Cattleya, Dendrobium and Oncidium.

• These pseudobulbs store water and nutrients that the plant can use during dry conditions. They grow from rhizomes and leaves are produced from the top or in some cases the sides. The leading pseudobulb is where new foliage and flowers emerge. Older pseudobulbs gradually lose their leaves and eventually die off. Pseudobulbs should not be cut off until they are completely dead.

• Coelogyne ‘Bird In Flight’ - another epiphytic species with aspidistra-like strappy leaves. Coelogyne like lots of water.

• Want to understand the difference between Monopodial vs Sympodial orchids? Here’s a visual guide.

• Dendrobium nobile is the most popular Dendrobium that is widely available on the market, with white flowers (usually - or sometimes purple) emerging from the canes. These orchids need a cool dormant period in winter in order to flower in spring. Extensive breeding is meaning that this is less true than it used to be - for instance Kevin’s Dendrobium ‘Green Surprise’.

Psychopsis mariposa 'Green Valley'. Photograph: Kevin Wigley.

• Dendronium nobile are the most popular Dendrobiums on the market - these are seasonal growers, that need a cool period in winter before they bloom in spring. However, breeding programmes are making D. nobile cultivars more amenable to life without a cool period - Kevin has found Dendrobium ‘Green Surprise’ grows and flowers well without a cool rest.

• Dendrobium phalaenopsis aka ‘hard cane’ Dendrobiums do not need a cool rest period.

• Oncidium ‘Sharry Baby’ is chocolate scented - scroll down for a photograph.

• Psychopsis mariposa 'Green Valley' (pictured right, click to enlarge) is a species related to the Oncidiums. Kevin grows them in a plastic basket with a net pot in the base to aid drainage.

• Bulbophyllum hirundinis is a miniature and lacks the unpleasant smell of many Bulbophyllum but looks amazing - scroll down for a picture.

• The pest Kevin mentions is Boisduval scale, a pest of orchids. He uses a spray of neat methylated spirits (aka denatured alcohol) to treat them.

Coelogyne ‘Bird in Flight’ (lauwrenceana x usitana). Photograph: Jane Perrone.

Oncidium ‘Sharry Baby’. Photograph: Kevin Wigley.

Bulbophyllum hirundinis. Photograph: Jane Perrone.

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THIS WEEK’S SPONSOR

Thanks to True Leaf Market for sponsoring this week’s show. Download their free cover crop guide here. Get 15% off cover crop seeds at trueleafmarket.com with promo code OTL15. This discount is only available for cover crop seed products. Offer expires end of December 2022. Limit one use per customer.

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CREDITS

This week's show featured the tracks Roll Jordan Roll by the Joy Drops andTime To Move and Motivate by The Insider. The ad music is Whistling Rufus by the Heftone Banjo Orchestra.